Home » 141: BJJ Black Belt John Lawrence & BJJ Black Belt Darla Sedlacek

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141: BJJ Black Belt John Lawrence & BJJ Black Belt Darla Sedlacek

Jiu Jitsu black belt, John Lawrence from Hurricane Jiu Jitsu Academy, is back and brought Jiu Jitsu black belt, Darla Sedlacek! Edgar OtraVez, Darla and John talked through some great topics. They talk about coaching, how to correct people, Jiu Jitsu for women, and knowing when to assert boundaries.

Darla Sedlacek

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Episode Transcript

This transcript was automated and will contain errors.

0:02 – Edgar OtraVez
What’s gone on party people? This is Edgar OtraVez and welcome to another episode of the Flow Roll Podcast. Now today on the show, I have two special guests. I have do jitsu blackbelt, John Lawrence. And if you guys listen to the show before you know that he is the owner and head instructor over at hurricane jujitsu, and I also have another special guest, Darla said the check who is also a jujitsu backbone, and a sports psychologist, among many other things. She’s multitalented. Now if you’re new to this show, and you’re like listening about combat sports and jujitsu, I have plenty of that. Over at our website, check it out. It’s the Flow Roll podcast.com. There you’ll find a complete catalogue of all our episodes, and a store where you can purchase a merchandise rip the podcast and help us out. Also, I want to ask for a solid if you’re diggin what I got going on here, make sure you like, subscribe, comment and share wherever you get your podcasts at. Because whatever you do for us will greatly help the podcast and help us grow. So you have no idea how excited I was. I love talking about jujitsu with John. He’s so smart. And I’ve been really excited about having Darla on because she’s a sports psychologist, but also a black belt in jujitsu. And I didn’t really know her until we recorded the podcast, I would see her Instagram and she was just always kicking ass and always smiling on the winner’s podium. And she seems to just have this amazing persona online, so I couldn’t wait to meet her. I really wanted to hear her thoughts on just coaching and becoming a new black belt. It was this was really exciting for me. And I hope you guys enjoy this podcast. I hope you get a lot out of it. Now without further ado, with the show.

Welcome to another episode of the Flow Roll Podcast. I am Edgar OtraVez. And today on the show, we have John Lawrence blackbelt and owner of hurricane jujitsu out in Cleveland. And we have another special guest, Darla Sadler check. Did I pronounce that right? Yep, you got it. All right. Who is a brand new black belt? Congratulations on the black belts. Thank you. So how’s it? How’s it feel to be a black belt?

2:22 – Darla Sedlacek
It feels really great. People ask me that. And I often have just said it feels right. It’s not any kind of huge difference in my life. I’m still showing up to practice all the time. I’m still doing laundry. I’m still doing all the things that I did before I got the black belt. There’s just like a little bit of a different air around me, I guess I would say. And it just it just feels right. Because I’ve worked so hard. And I’ve from day one of getting on the mats. I set my sights on it. I knew I would get it and I got it. So it just feels right. So how long did it take you? Eight years?

3:04 – Edgar OtraVez
Eight years? That’s kind of pretty good. That’s a day, right?

3:08 – Darla Sedlacek
Yeah, to the day. And I was thinking. So I showed up day one when Hurricane opened, which was the it was Monday practice of a Labor Day weekend, I believe it was September 8 of 2014. And then I never left. So like, the entire first year, I came to every single class that was available mornings and evenings as our schedule expanded. I didn’t come to every class available, because then I’d be doing three days. But for the most part of the of the entire eight years. I have trained every day, and usually twice a day. And as my teaching responsibility expanded, you know that just because there were more more and more doses of jujitsu in the day, and I would do Jiu Jitsu around my my work schedule, and just made it happen.

4:02 – Edgar OtraVez
So, John, like when you see somebody come in like that, and is there all the time? What is what is one of the thoughts that goes in your head, like when you see someone like this, this dedicated?

4:12 – John Lawrence
Well, I mean, so people will often come in kind of hot, it always takes, it probably took a little time for me to realize what a gem I had. Because people still do that now. And you’ll see the coaches get very excited. And I should say you should see some of the coaches get excited to be like, wow, like, check this out. This person’s got a lot of talent. They got this. They’re coming to two classes day and I’m just like, well, let’s just wait and see. Like, just let’s just give us a little time that Darla was just like, very steady, very consistent. And when you realize that you’ve got somebody like that. It’s just extremely rare. That’s it. It’s just people who are that dedicated. Just don’t come around that often. I don’t know what the ratio would be one However many students, but it could be like, yeah, it could be like 100 1000. I’m not sure. It’s just really rare. And that’s what every coach wants. I mean, every every coach wants, like a, you know, like a Gordon Ryan level of dedication or like a Gianni Grippo level of dedication or a girl similar level of dedication. You just kind of wish everybody was like that.

5:23 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. And, you know, all kinds of things happen, right? People get injured. I think my most common things would be injury, and then just they just lose steam or whatever, right? Like for whatever reason work, or what have you.

5:34 – John Lawrence
She’s oddly durable. And I actually think it would be, I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this, but why do you think you’re like that?

5:41 – Darla Sedlacek
I’m not sure I know, I do have a very high tolerance for pain. I, I’m not sure I’ve always been an athlete. You know, from the time that I was seven, I’ve been engaged in intense sports of various sorts. And I don’t know, maybe it’s like the nature nurture. Maybe some of it is some blessing of genetics, maybe some of it is just my work ethic. And I always will find a way. So like, even in jujitsu when I’ve had minor injuries, whether it’s been like, I’ve had an AC joint sprain, or this or that, or my fingers, or, you know, some that I’ve had certainly had aches and pains along the way. But I’ve just found a way to work around them. And I’ve just, you know, got to the mat and like, well, all right, you know, I’ll do the best I can. And if it gets to a place where I am not able, then you know, I’ll deal with it. But I always push limits. And I think that’s, you know, maybe part of it is I, there’s a part of me, that is just, I love to push limits, and I will push and push and push until I can’t and then I won’t.

6:49 – John Lawrence
But I guess what I’m saying though, is that it feels like most people like there are people who do that. But inevitably, shit just breaks. Yeah, like, like parts break, and then your pain tolerance is irrelevant. Right? Like you’re not experiencing that. True, you know? Yeah. So what’s up?

7:07 – Edgar OtraVez
Maybe part of it is she since she’s been such a long time, you know, sports practitioner, you know, she’s an athlete, her whole life, that probably is why she’s able to like, not get hurt. She knows her body. Well. Right. So I think that’s what maybe part of it right, Darla, you probably have really good genetics to write. I mean, to be able to, you know, get through this stuff. But also, like, you know, your body well enough, you push the limits, but you know, how far to push probably. Do you think that’s right, or?

7:36 – Darla Sedlacek
Yeah, I think so. And I think like, I’m not afraid to push like, so let me give an example. Like one of the sports that I spend a lot of time in was Ultra running. And I ran 100 mile races and 24 hours. And during those 24 hours, there’s a lot that occurs in terms of you know, how what’s happening in your mental state and what’s happening with your physical state. And I would get to what I call the zombie apocalypse around 2am. So the race would start at like nine in the morning, and you run until 9am, the next morning, 24 hours, as much as you can run you cover as much distance as you can. And the my best my best one was 103 miles in that 24 hour timeframe. Holy cow. Yeah. So I over time, I did like four or five of those 24 hour races like that. And so over time I learned, you know, where were the where were the spots where I was going to struggle most mentally and or physically. And so like around 2am Would would be zombie apocalypse. And that’s where in the ultra running community they call it bonking where if you’re not eating and drinking appropriately, you start to just get like this fog face and you start not talking sensibly. And if you have a crew that’s helping you they know that they have to force some, you know, sugar, salt water, something on you to get you out of this state. So with that said, over time and my experiences in those races, knowing that that would come around a certain time, then I would prepare for it. And I know that it was not going to be pleasant. And I would know that my body was going to be like not happy. But I would use all my Jedi mind tricks on sports psychology to manage the physical pain and the mental anguish that would come from the challenge. So in terms of how I like push through challenge or you know, like, meet a challenge. I’m not sure you know what part of genetics is is in that equation. But I think it’s more my determination and my grit and my love of a challenge. Like, I want to get in there. I’m gonna tackle this. I’m gonna get it. So I think I lost your original question.

10:08 – Edgar OtraVez
Got it? I mean, the question was a little bit about whether, you know, it’s a little bit of genetics, but like, what else is there that that push you through? Yeah. You mentioned some Jedi mind tricks and psychology because you are a psychologist. Yes. And can you share a little bit of that kind of what you were thinking when you were going through those marathons? Like, what? What is it that you needed to say to yourself, and at what point what, what experience did you have that made you think I need to think this while I’m doing this?

10:39 – Darla Sedlacek
So in the in the ultra marathons, it’s a little different because it was a little bit more intense, but the very first marathon that I did, so marathons are 26.2 miles, and ultra marathon is anything that’s over that distance, the ultras that I did were anywhere from 50 to 100 miles. So in my very first marathon, I my my point where I knew it was where it was difficult was like around the 17 mile mark. And what I would say to myself was like, walk in the park, just walk in the park, walk in the park, or I would say, lightest feathers, Swift is a really very lightest feather. Swift is a river. And I would just keep saying it to myself to get through the parts where it was like, I was physically experiencing the struggle, and then mentally. So I had a couple specific mantras or phrases of self talk, to get me through that marathon. And then building on that experience, when I did the ultras, I knew that that was going to be very important. And when I was doing the ultras, it was a little different. I actually had a little talk with the moon, you know, two in the morning, there’s a big bright moon shining, and I just kept like, Oh, hello, Moon, like, try to channel the energy of the big bright moon. And I was I had a couple animal like spirit, animal energies that I would call on in different ways. And I’ve always done that. And even jujitsu, I very, very strongly resonate with two different animals in terms of how I train one’s an ad, or one’s a dragon. So there’s lots of different ways that people can use mantras, the word means mind protection, but self talk, it’s a game of like noticing your thoughts. And then if you’re thinking things that are unhelpful to the goal at hand, you pair it with purpose and with intention, switch to something that is helpful. So it can be something playful, neutral, like, you know, animals, like ooh, I’m a black panther, run through the woods, whoo, I am a black panther run through the woods, and you keep saying that to yourself. Or it could be something very technical, like keep the pace, keep the pace, you know, keep the breath, keep the pace, you know, whatever. It could be something technical, physical, or it could be something emotional imagery that conjures up a feeling, or an energy within you to keep going.

13:16 – Edgar OtraVez
And the you switch back and forth all the time, or do you lean more on one than the other in terms of like, the technical and, and the spiritual?

13:25 – Darla Sedlacek
In jujitsu, I would say it’s equal between technical and feeling type stuff. When I was doing the running, it was probably more the feeling imagery type stuff.

13:37 – Edgar OtraVez
And you think that’s because you were? Because it’s a repetitive action at that point? Right. So you probably don’t need the technical as much.

13:45 – Darla Sedlacek
Yeah, for sure. And I think that, you know, 24 hours of something is, is different than, you know, several, five to 10 minute matches.

13:57 – Edgar OtraVez
Holy cow. So like, I mean, I don’t know if people really understand how hard that is. I mean, you’re talking about, you know, 20 plus miles, you’re, you’re talking about 100 miles or whatever, in 24 hours. That’s just not. That is absolutely.

14:13 – John Lawrence
I think, I think it’s first of all, I would just like to be very clear. I would not want to try to do that. I don’t think I could do that.

14:19 – Edgar OtraVez
I think it’s badass.

14:21 – John Lawrence
It’s crazy. Yeah. You’ve seen her feet after some of these things. Purple, purple grapes on the bottom. That’s crazy. She’s mentioned this before, one of the one of the big differences between something like that, and something like a jujitsu match is I think during a 24 hour run, you’ve got the possibility or the opportunity to have like some really dark moments where you can doubt yourself maybe you even slow down maybe even stopped. Are you allowed to stop? Oh, yeah, you can stop. Maybe they stopped for a minute. You have yourself a good cry. I don’t know what have you. That’s what I’d be doing. But she said this before, that you have such a narrow window for good performance in the context of like a jujitsu match, you’ve got five minutes. And there’s just no room for a cry break during the five minute match. So if you, if you say you get taken down, you get your guard pass and you start to go to a dark place like your recovery window is extremely narrow, which is why these tools, I think they become even more important in the context of of like, competitive jujitsu, which is why we’ve been, I’ve been trying to get a lot of people to train this stuff, leading up to this next competition, we have, just want to mention that

15:35 – Edgar OtraVez
so like, John, you’ve you’ve we’ve talked about this kind of stuff in the past is, is it because Darla was there to kind of influence you in that respect, or

15:44 – John Lawrence
she there was a big, big part of it, I definitely have recognized in the transition from I was competing at adult brown belt, and then I made the transition to adult black belt. And at adult black belt, it’s just a totally different. So totally different game, when you go to like these big tournaments, and you compete at adult black belt, especially, like at the stage that I was in I was I was, you know, 3334 35 years old. Yeah, 36 years old, even even competing, an adult black belt. And I was just getting beaten by some very capable people. But I also felt like, that crushed my confidence to a degree, like competing with these world class guys is a very cool thing to say that say that you’ve done. But it also creates a losing habit. So I got into like a definitely got into like a headspace where like, My confidence was reduced. And I recognize that and then she actually referred me to a sports psychologist that helped me just like straight and a lot of this stuff out in my mind. And then from there, I felt like my performances were were way better. And then on the side, she would always offer me really good advice, like at the school, on the on the sports psych side of things. So yeah, bit of both.

17:02 – Edgar OtraVez
So though, one of the things you put on your website, and I found this really interesting, it said in your about us area, something to the effect of I spend a lot of time training, and coaching jujitsu with a framework of creating optimal experiences in sports life. And I found that interesting, because it was like you said optimal. You didn’t say positive, you didn’t say anything like that you said optimal, why that particular word choice.

17:29 – Darla Sedlacek
In the psychology literature, there’s a lot written about flow states, and being in the flow, some people will know that as like peak performance, being in the zone, those sorts of things. optimal experience leads to optimal performance. And so what what is that what how do you have optimal experience, and it’s not just chasing after feeling positive all the time, because that’s impossible. But it’s also it’s not the formula to get to the optimal experience and or the performance. So enjoyment and satisfaction are the hallmarks of that. And when people talk about, they just want to be happy. There’s no such thing as just being happy all the time, positive all the time. It’s just not it’s not possible. We’re humans, we suffer. So in looking at how do I move forward in a way that I can feel satisfied, because in research the world over different cultures? What does it mean to be happy? Well, it really boils down to the satisfaction that comes from working towards something that is meaningful to you. So it’s the working towards. And so when I talk about optimal experience, and performance, it’s the formula for working towards something in a way that is effective and enjoyable. And so the pieces of that are many, but a few of them are aligning yourself with what is most important to you. So knowing what why am I doing this, you know, being able to answer very clearly and distinctly Why am I doing this and it should be tied to what is most important to me, my guiding principles, my values in life, from there, you know, having some goals that are tied to that, you know, why am I doing this? And okay, now that I know why, what what are the pieces, what are the moving parts, and there’s a whole science of goal setting and it doesn’t have to be very involved and complicated. It’s just putting some structure to your efforts, so that you are moving forward and testing yourself in that movement. Another piece of the optimal exposure variance is truly the, you know what we’re just talking about the self talk. So it’s surprising to me how often people just have this running commentary in their minds that they are maybe at times aware of, and at times not that is full of just horrible statements. And they don’t necessarily even realize where they came from, it could have been an adult, a parent or a coach, or somebody that you know, was, you know, spitting, yelling at them different things, you know, when they were coming up, again, whether it’s in their sport life, or, you know, off mat off the field off the court. But this running commentary of, oh, I suck, I’m terrible, I’m never gonna be able to do this. Or I’m, you know, I’m a fit skater, I’m never going to be able to get this right. You know, whatever those comments are, they came from somewhere, they don’t, they don’t necessarily originate in the individual. But what happens is over time, and especially if they start when, you know, when one is a young individual, those statements become internalized. And then as the individual ages, they talk to themselves that way, and not knowing that it came from somewhere else. And then the task becomes to rewire and reroute those statements to things that are helpful, rather than unhelpful. And so making those that self talk, an object of one’s awareness can take a while because it can be deeply rooted.

21:35 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, I got, I got a funny comment, kind of, and this makes sense to me a little bit more now. But I realized that every now and then when my, when my kids really get under my skin, I start, I start correcting them in Spanish, like the Spanish pops out. And I don’t even I don’t even speak Spanish, like on an regular day like this just when I’m a little upset. And I’m telling you, Hey, don’t do that. It comes out a no, no, I guess. So. It just comes right out in Spanish. I’m like, like, why am I speaking Spanish all of a sudden? And it’s probably because you know, when I was corrected as a kid, it was in Spanish when we came from my parents, you know? Sure. But you don’t think that negative self talk? Not that my parents talk to me negatively in Spanish, but but just that negative self talk, you don’t think there’s a place for it, though, you don’t like if it’s motivating for the person? Or do you think that negative talk is just a no no period,

22:37 – Darla Sedlacek
I think that we have to define what you mean by negative. So some people will associate, like angry talk with something that is negative, and it’s not necessarily negative. And I say that because there are certain very high profile, high profile coaches that have a very, quote, angry or negative demeanor when they’re usually yelling at athletes. And oftentimes, those coaches are kind of idolized, because the team or the athletes will actually perform well. And if you look at what’s really happening there, most often those coaches are very good technically. And it’s not necessarily their demeanor, of quote, negativity, or anger style coaching that is helpful. It’s that they’re very good technically, in terms of their coaching. So the athletes, and I would hypothesize would actually fare even far better, and have a better experience, if the coach was using a different manner of relating to those athletes, that was encouraging and about growth and focusing on strengths rather than what people are doing wrong. And there’s all kinds of research about this, that when you have a strengths based approach, and you constantly notice what people are doing right, rather than what they’re doing wrong, it’s those things that tend to grow. And the athlete then guess what enjoys the experience and gets better and performs well, so there’s a coach voice and a place for the role of the coach and then I would think of it like there’s an inner coach. So if my inner coach is always dogged on me, not only my neck and enjoy what I’m doing, but I’m not likely to improve in ways that I would if I had an inner coach that was kind and supportive and like yeah, come on. Let’s get in there. Let’s see. Okay, all right. Let’s fine tune this and this this looks good. This looks good. But let’s work over here. Okay, come on. Let’s do it. Today’s the day. See, that is very different experience.

24:58 – Edgar OtraVez
And that’s exactly what was Gonna ask like, how do you? Because you kind of mentioned it a little bit there? How do you guys encourage people to correct certain things without dogging on with or without it appearing? That your dog and I’m like you’re getting on their case, you know, you have a great shot. But you got to work on your throws, right? Like, how do you say that so that it doesn’t come off? As you know, our coach is always on my back about my throws? You know, John, do you want to address it further? Yeah,

25:27 – John Lawrence
I think it depends on the environment. If it’s, if it’s a competition, you want to narrow this list to a specific environment, let’s, let’s

25:35 – Edgar OtraVez
go, let’s go with the training environment. So like he or she is coming to practice. And, you know, they got stuff they got to work on, and you need to address it. But how do you do that without coming off, I guess, negatively or angry.

25:49 – John Lawrence
This is maybe a little cliche, but I really liked the positivity sandwich a lot. I use that quite often. So if I if I do have something I want to talk to somebody about. It might be a little different if they’re coming to me and going, Hey, what do I need to work on? But if I just have something to say, like, I would go up and say, you know, Hey, can I, first of all, just Can I get your ear for a minute? You know, yeah, sure. What’s up? You go. You know, I think I think that the the wrestling background that you bring into the gym is extremely effective. I want you to keep a lot of the habits that you’ve you know, that you’ve that keep keep a lot of the tools and the tool set a lot of the habits that you have. But then what I what I don’t do, as I say, but I don’t want you to do this, I won’t say that I’ll still frame even though I don’t want you to in a positive way. So what I like to see you do is when you’re passing guard, there are these moments where you’ve got this habit of forward pressure, your forward pressure for pressure for pressure, what I’d like to see you do is consider the opportunities that you might have to disengage and pass laterally as opposed to always pushing forward. Now I can phrase that a very different way I could say you know why you gotta stop being you got to stop being so bullheaded, you got to stop getting in this tunnel, where you’re just pushing forward, like you’ve, you’ve got to, it’s hard for me to even talk like that. Because I’m, I’m in the habit of always phrasing it positively. So I’m kind of struggling right now. And then I would just book ended with, you know, but again, like, I just think you bring a lot of potential and a lot of talent to the table. And like I know you can make this work. So how

27:33 – Edgar OtraVez
often do you talk to your students like that? Like, do you? Do you find someone every day? Or that you have to say something like that to them? Or do you go out of your way to say something like that to someone to improve them? Or you just go with it when it happens?

27:48 – John Lawrence
That’s a tricky one. We have a lot of students, and it’s impossible for me to talk to everybody like that at every class. I’ve been asked before, in maybe a roundabout way, like if we play favorites at the gym, like do we favor certain students? And I would say, yeah, absolutely. We play favorites. We play favorites in that. If you’re coming in, and you’re investing, like, everybody’s paying, so let’s just let’s just take the monetary exchange off the table, like everybody’s paying for their membership, okay. But if you’re paying for your membership, and then also like, you’re, you’re just putting in all this extra, like study time outside of class, you’re you’re going to competitions. And you’re just like being very thoughtful in your approach. I mean, of course, we would, we would play favorites with people who are like investing more in us, like we’re going to invest more in you. So I would definitely favor having those types of conversations with with those students, you know. So does that answer the question?

28:51 – Edgar OtraVez
Absolutely.

28:52 – John Lawrence
Okay. I definitely can’t talk to everybody liked that. It would just it just not sustainable.

28:57 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, you got how many students there like 200. And it’s just that’s a lot of people talk with?

29:04 – John Lawrence
Yeah, even in the practice room. I mean, like, just from if you just do the math on time, if that’s if that’s a three minute conversation, and you got 40 people in the room. I mean, it’s just there you go.

29:15 – Edgar OtraVez
There’s a lot of time now. Yeah. So though, how do you go about asking students to make positive changes?

29:22 – John Lawrence
Can I just I’m sorry, no, no, go for it. Darla. And it made me think of something when it’s somebody like her. And we have other people like this too. Some people don’t need it. Like don’t need to hear from their coach. You see a lot of coaches like all they want to do is just like ice the cake, right? They just want to like put their spice and their flavor on it. Just hear what I hear when I told them. You hear what I said to him just said yeah, he’s doing it right. It’s like if there’s a boat that’s going in the right direction, I’m not blowing on the sale. You see what I’m saying? And like so with Darla, sometimes she likes coming to me like anything and I’m like, nothing I don’t like it It’s also people that aren’t her will come up to me like anything I need to fix, I hope they don’t think I’m blowing them off. It’s just that if you have like a perfect recipe, if somebody’s like, doing what you want them to do, I think it’s a totally selfish move as a coach to try to like, put your, you know, put your little like spice in the soup. You see at a tournaments to this, this is really gross thing people do at tournaments where they’re, they’re not coaching for the athlete, they’re coaching, they’re coaching for the room. They’re yelling stuff, so all of the other people around, can like hear this, this verbal manifestation of their knowledge, where we’re like, it’s just completely unnecessary, that you’re giving the athlete like advice at that time. So that’s just last thing I would say is like when people like darlin other people who are like, just operating like in an optimal way, like, why why blow on the sail, if the ship is going straight, I just leave it alone.

30:54 – Edgar OtraVez
Okay, so I’m gonna have to come back to that whole self aware thing and turn it into like coaching. But Darla, I wanted to hear what you had to say about coaching people and trying to get them to correct things without sounding negatively.

31:08 – Darla Sedlacek
I think at a base level, coaching is your it’s your teaching, in some ways, right. And there’s a science to coaching. So, you know, I took plenty of courses in coaching when I was in school. And I was always interested in the methods of coaching because I had some really horrible coaches in my early sporting life like horrible yelling, verbally abusive. As I hinted earlier, calling me fat, when I clearly was not telling me I was going to be getting on a scale in front of everybody. So there there are, there is a science to coaching and you think that some things will be common sense, but they’re not. So it is your teaching, and you in order to teach somebody, first of all, you have to have a knowledge base. So to be an effective coach, you have to, you know, have at least some relevant knowledge base to be able to impart, you know, skills and techniques. And so some code, you know, especially in youth sports, there are plenty of parent coaches that have never played, but they’re on the sidelines yelling at those kids on Saturday morning, and they have no idea what the heck they’re talking about. They’ve never even, you know, been on the field. Yeah, um, I think that’s probably not as true for jujitsu. But my point is that there has to be a base of technical knowledge to be a good coach. Secondly, it truly is, you know, I can tell when a coach is someone who really cares about their students. And most often, most people, most athletes that I know, they, you know, do really well, when they have a coach that truly cares. If a coach is in that position for whatever other reasons, they like the power, they like wearing the coach sweatshirt that says coach on the back and makes it look cool at the tournaments, you know, it’s there can be some ego involved with it. And it’s, it’s really fascinating, actually. But coaches that really care about their students, I think there’s a noticeable difference and how they relate then to the athletes that they work with. And then with that said, you know, the science of coaching, what makes a good or really great coach is, knowing how, again, that strengths focus, like, even if it’s a day one brand new beginner student. So you’re like, for example, the intro classes that we have when somebody comes in, and they’re having a hard time with a basic movement, I absolutely would not be frustrated where I could I’ve seen, you know, other instances in other contexts where you’d have a brand new beginner, someone who’s, you know, wanting to learn, and they’re met with frustration by the the teacher, and that’s absolutely that. No, no, no, no, no, it’s your job as the teacher to bring forth the skill in the student. And so it’s about how do you tailor what you’re doing to their needs, in a caring way, and focusing on what they’re doing? Right. And that’s going to help them feel better feel maybe in when maybe they’re anxious, and they just need to relax a little bit. Maybe whatever, maybe there’s all kinds of things going on, but it’s about you know, how do you position the technical information in a way that the student can actually hear it? You know, if they’re anxious, they may not even Yeah, you know, hear what’s going on all the way. Yeah. So you put them at ease, maybe it’s a slight touch, you know, especially in jujitsu. There’s a lot of touch. And so like when I’m cueing someone on what to do. And I’ll say, you know, put your right hand here, I’ll actually like maybe touch the part of the body that I want them to go touch and you know, just kind of experience it. That’s that maybe it’s a whole nother conversation, but it’s focusing on what they’re doing, right? Oh, I really Oh, that’s great. You’re on the right track. I like what you just did there. Now let’s add this. And if they start going in a direction that is, you know, incorrect, and it’s just, it’s like, okay, wait, pause. Let’s go back a step. Okay. Now do this. Okay. Yes, that’s great. Now, here we go. You’re on the right track. Let’s keep doing that. So it’s like encouraging language that, you know, everybody wants to feel like they can, you know, and if they’re being told they can’t? Well, guess what, they’re not going to enjoy it. They’re not going to come back.

35:50 – Edgar OtraVez
I think I think that’s something that’s very unique to you guys at that school or at hurricane? You guys are so self aware. Are you how do you how do you guys stay self aware like that? How do you sit there and say, Okay, I need to think about how I’m gonna say this. Like, how did you like John, especially you like, how do you come to the to realize, okay, I, this is not about me. This is about my students. This is about the person that I’m training or coaching. How did you arrive to that?

36:24 – John Lawrence
It goes back to my coach, it goes back to Pedro. Pedro was he was he had a lot of knowledge about about Jiu Jitsu, a lot of technical knowledge. And once you were comfortable with him, he could he could impart that knowledge and like, you understood that he, he had like this sort of tongue in cheek, harsh side, to where, like, when you really got to know him, and he was sort of like, giving you shit, you knew, like, there was love behind it. But being his right hand person at that school, I, I saw him interact that way with brand new people a lot. And these people didn’t understand his demeanor or sense of humor. And they were, they were in a new environment, and they were uncomfortable. And I, you know, I watched him interact with people. And he just, you know, he had this, he wasn’t trying to be a jerk, like, he just had a way of communicating with his athletes were like, so we have a brand new person. And you’ve been doing jujitsu for 30 years, and you’ve forgotten how hard it is to do an armlock. Right? And so, you get the new student and they go to pass the arm and they grab the arm and they pass the runway goes, no, why are you doing like that? Realize what I just showed to you, Jesus Christ. And, um, you know, and he can talk to me that way. And I know him. And I know, like, where his heart is. And I understand. So it’s sometimes not even be like, Bro. But if you’re new, and you’re nervous, we forget sometimes that we’re in this like, very intimidating martial arts environment. Right. I still have to remind myself of that. So I saw I saw that happen with him. And then I would I would see is I would see those people not come back. Yeah. So when I started my own business, I was like, Okay, this needs to be like, much more customer service oriented, which is not a term I think people associate with martial arts. So I always try, I always tried to just try to keep in view what it’s like for someone’s first class. I mean, like, I went to a hot yoga class, maybe five or six years ago for the first time. And I was like, cool, kind of, kind of intimidated. Like, I don’t know what to do, where to stand. do I sign up for the class? Can I drop in? And I’m like, it’s just hot yoga. Yeah, I am feeling uncomfortable. Like, Oh, of course, like, this is just like a new environment. Yeah, so maybe it’s part of my personality. But also, like I said, I did get to see a very passionate, but also, like, somewhat abrasive coach, you know, scare some new people away. So I learned from that I

39:21 – Edgar OtraVez
had some stories like where I’ll bet you do. He was, he was

39:27 – John Lawrence
he was he was your coach, too. Just for people listening.

39:30 – Edgar OtraVez
He was my coach, too. And I knew he was joking around. And so I would joke around with him back and he didn’t like

39:41 – John Lawrence
so you had to watch that. So what one time he this was, this is like the first ever location where were you there where he he shared the space with the capillaris Studio. It was somebody’s house. Oh wow. Like it was somebody’s like where they live, you know? And it was like a flat as you to walk through their living room, and then go into the door for the closed off jujitsu room and you can hear like their baby crying. The wife was like cooking breakfast in the kitchen. It was hilarious. And we were doing ghee and then like a wrestler came in. And Pedro’s his his English I feel like I’ve improved a lot like over the years that we’re friends but then it was like so he says, he goes he goes John roll with him no gain to egos, egos take off your top for me. And I was like, he says, take off your top, which is like, you know, this is somewhat suggestive in the English language. And I say to my go, Pedro, I never had a man say that to me. Before he goes, he looked at me, he goes, me you sparring now? He beat the fuck out

I think I was a white belt still. Yeah,

40:57 – Edgar OtraVez
I was I was a white belt. And he goes to me like I I messed up my knot on my on my belt. And he’s like, how you tell you about right? And so I’m like, Oh, how do I tie it? It was just like, you go like this. And then you put this on the left? And he’s like, is that your left or my left? And he looks at me? And he’s like, No, he said, he basically told me he’s, like, look stupid. Your question is like, you look stupid your left. And I’m like, Alright, and then this goes down and like is that you’re down on my doubt. And he just looked at me. And he was just like, just tie the belt. Oh, my God, sorry.

41:35 – John Lawrence
Yeah, so I just I just think back to I think back to those times. And I think when people are more relaxed, they’re just more like sponges for new knowledge. So what do you think?

41:45 – Darla Sedlacek
Yeah, I think that you’ve always cultivated an atmosphere of focusing on the learner. And even I think on the front page of the hurricane website, it says, We tailor the training to you. Something like that. So I think it’s, you know, it’s always been something that I think John has emphasized. And the atmosphere is such that if you’re coaching there, you that’s what you’re doing, because that’s how it’s always been.

42:19 – Edgar OtraVez
So how did you get to the point where you were self aware? Like, how did you become okay, I need to think about the things I say, like, what is what is the, like, how did you become that self aware enough to be able to say, Okay, I need to be coaching the person, I’m not here to show off? Well,

42:40 – Darla Sedlacek
I would say, in a large way, a lot of that comes from my other work life, which is being a psychologist, I am always, you know, very careful and methodical about how I use my words, and over many, many, many years of practicing that on the daily, it’s, it’s something that comes in now very naturally to me. But you know, perhaps, as I was in school and going through school, you know, I always was a meditator, you know, and that may sound like irrelevant, but I think I remember my freshman year of college, I think I would come back between classes, and I would meditate for like a half an hour every day, I did various like things outside of my coursework that helped me to like, slow down. And again, they had to answer your question that hey, how do you cultivate this self awareness? And meditation, I think was a huge factor in that now, you know, today, do I sit down for 20 minutes and close my eyes and put my thumb and my first fingers together and say, Oh, no, I do not. But, you know, over many years of my life, it was a practice that I engaged in that I think, certainly helped me to cultivate self awareness. I have done lots of I think in one of the questions that you posed to me about how I smile a lot and my pictures. Yeah. And is that something that comes naturally I’ve had to work for that. I think that relates to self awareness. I think I’ve had plenty of hardships that I’ve had to do a lot of work to understand and move on from in various ways. And I think that, you know, there’s the great joy also comes with great sorrow. And both of those things, the seemingly opposites, the yin and the yang of those things, and the just the experience of going through the things that we face in life, at least for me, I’ve always wanted to learn and then figure it out and then Okay, moving forward, okay, what am I doing? What am I doing with this? And then a step beyond that is then how can I help somebody else with this in ways that I might so whether it’s in my work life, mostly in my work life as a psychologist You know, any experience that I’ve had, I think I’ve been able to like turn it around and use it as fuel to understand a particular issue situation topic of concern. And then it’s positioned me to understand things from an inside way to help somebody else who might be having a similar experience. And the again, but self awareness is very tricky, because like I might be, I may have an experience. So I’m trying to think of an example really quick to make this a little more concrete. Hmm. So for example, when my parents got divorced, you know, I, as a high schooler, you know, I had some adjustment issues with that I was very angry, and I didn’t like it, you know. And so at that early stage, I think my mom recognized that it might be helpful for me to go talk to somebody. So I did. And that was probably my first, you know, interaction with a psychologists and that is proud, I’m certain part of what makes me want to become one. But working through a difficulty, and then turning around, and using that difficulty to help somebody else in my work life. As a psychologist, it’s tricky, because I do not project my experiences into someone else’s, I can sit on my side of the line, and have some understanding and reflect with someone, but I’m holding their experience without projecting mine into it. So I can understand something having gone through an experience in such a way that I can ask the right questions, and connect the right dots to help someone come to their own understanding. But I’m not pushing my understanding on them in that process. And so that I think, takes quite a lot of self awareness, knowing where the lines are in the boundaries between me and somebody else. And especially in a say, in a psychologist relationship, where people are very vulnerable when they come into the room, and they are seeking out help and answers, but I’m not there to give them answers. I’m, I’m there to help them come up with their own answers. So in some ways, my years and years of experience doing that certainly, I think translates to a coaching role, where there’s a place to tell somebody what to do, especially when they’re new, but further down the line, it’s helping them cultivate their own experience, their own framework and coming up with their own goals and not pushing something on them. And having again, back to your question, the self awareness piece is, you know, as a coach, what part of this is theirs to do? And what part is mine to assist and be a guide? And I think that’s an important distinction to make a lot of coaches don’t make that distinction.

47:47 – Edgar OtraVez
No, they don’t. I think that’s and that’s why I say it’s very unique to you guys. Because I don’t think a lot of places teach like you guys teach.

47:54 – John Lawrence
I think there are two other points that I’d like to make on that subject. One is that one’s about balance, and then one’s about experience. We everything that we ask our athletes to do, we do. And I can say that completely across the board. We asked them to them to compete, the coaches compete, we asked them to spar for an hour, the coaches are not just sitting on the wall watching everybody spar, like we are in there with everybody, we ask everybody to do bear crawls and lunges and Sprint’s we’re, we’re doing it to, I can’t imagine running like a conditioning session or really hard jiu jitsu session without actually understanding how difficult it is through experience. So I think that’s a really big, a really big part of it. And then also, there’s a balance component to our gym, where we talk a lot we’ve been talking a lot about, like the sports psych side, the mantra side, the meditation side, the self awareness side, the self talk side. And that stuff’s all really important. But I also wouldn’t want to give the impression that we’re out of balance in that, like, we’re just sitting around, meditating and telling everybody how wonderful they are. You You also have to have that component of grit and sweat and blood and being banged up and bruised and cut and there’s something about all that pain that actually feels pretty incredible. And you have to have that rough side because it is a combat sport. And you can go out of out of balance in either direction, you know, you could you could go to a gym and their protocol is they just do like 20 rounds of really hard sparring. It’s like very much on that end of the spectrum. And then you can go to gyms where they you know, they barely do any live training, the instructors are not participating. And it’s just, you know, everybody’s getting a stripe on their belt once once they attend 20 classes and there’s like a pretty wide spectrum of styles when you when you travel around and visit different schools. So yeah, the balance component and then the experiential component of just like we do it. Like we’re not asking people to do stuff going on. I wonder what that’s like looks really hard, like we do it every day.

50:02 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, leading from the front is important, man. And that’s how I ended up with Pedro. Like, I was I was looking for schools. I went in, I was like, how do I find a good school? Oh, these guys compete a lot. So I’m gonna look at tournaments. I went looking through tournaments, I went to the IBJJF, I looked at results. I went down the list, and I was looking at schools and the name of the people on the list. And I saw Pedro, Viana, and I saw his website, Pedro, Viana. And then I saw that he won first place, and I’m like, I guess I’ll try that place. And so I went there. And that’s when I was like, This guy’s legit. I also met him like beforehand. But when I looked them up, like I already knew who he was, and then I saw that he was a first place winner on at a tournament for IBG. Yeah. And I was like, Well, you know, none of these other guys are doing it. And that alone, press me. And I said, Okay, well, I’m gonna go there, because this guy, he’s not only competing, but he’s also His name is on the door, you know? So like, that was one of the ways I ended up at Pedros. So the other thing I wanted to parse out from that about us and your website, there’s a sentence that says, because of the many benefits of jujitsu training, I strongly advocate for getting women comfortable with the idea of participating. I mean, aside from the self defense component, is there something else that you think women really benefit from participating in jujitsu?

51:20 – Darla Sedlacek
Absolutely. And I think the self defense component becomes less, less of the focus as they actually get into it. And I think it’s some like way women or not, I think that, you know, we all are aware of the benefits, if we’re in it, maybe for listeners that are not, but, you know, aside from self defense, there’s the fitness aspects, there’s the social connection aspects, there are many benefits, challenging yourself, and the enjoyment that comes from taking up a challenge. And like, Yeah, I did it, you know, people talk about how they train and forget about everything else going on in their life for that hour and a half, and they, you know, reset, and then, you know, feel very much relieved of their stresses and then able to go back to the usual after. So I think, you know, whether, regardless of gender, I think there are many, many benefits aside from self defense. But for women, in particular, what I would say is that, what I have seen, is there’s a shift from, perhaps an overemphasis and how their body looks, to how their body feels, and how much like they appreciate what they can do, versus what the body looks like. So being able to apply a joint lack of being able to wrestle around with other women and to, like, enjoy that. And to like, get the visceral, you know, the feel of the strength and the power of what their bodies can do. Especially if they’ve never really never wrestled around like that, that I think is a very dramatic shift. And I’ve seen that many times. And that leads to just a very different level of confidence that we it leads to a whole host of things that occur off the mats, you know, that I’ve often heard from students that they use the metaphor, the wealth, the literal tapping, that the you know, in jujitsu, we tap when we want something to stop. But in a metaphoric way, in their relationships, when perhaps there’s a conflict, or there’s something going on that they don’t like, they’ll think of that and they’ll, they’ll, like, they’ve been totally there. Like, I’ll hear my voice saying, it’s okay to tap, you know, and so like in a relationship where there’s something going on, they don’t like that metaphor of tapping comes to mind, and they’ll tap out and say, Nope, I’m not no, not okay with this. So I think that there’s a real translation into how they function in their relationships. And again, if we think about tapping as setting a boundary for people that maybe struggle with setting boundaries, it’s live real practice. And, yes, it’s in a physical sense on the mats, but when they’re off the mats, it translates to what they do and in other ways, most definitely.

54:20 – Edgar OtraVez
You know, one thing I had a discussion with, once with this woman, and I never really kind of, I never thought about it until just now. But you know, I introduced her to a boxing coach, she started taking boxing. And she said that, you know, she got to a point where she was pretty good, and she was popping mitts pretty hard. And she said that there was a couple of things that that she said that kind of struck me and the one was that, you know, she felt really good about afterwards, there was all this endorphins, I guess, and she was feeling really good about the exercise she just had, but more so the thing that really stuck out to me was she felt power. When she would hit the bag or limits, and to hear the sound that came from her fist making contact with whatever thing gave her a sense of power like she and that, like, you know, it just like she didn’t realize she had that kind of physical strength. Because I think for men, we do a lot of things where it’s, you know, we use our strength, it’s something that we kind of rely on for a lot of things. And I don’t know if this is a fair assessment, but do you think that might be the case for a lot of women that they don’t have an opportunity to feel their strength? And then something like jujitsu or kickboxing, or boxing or some of these others context sports gives them an opportunity to have that power?

55:36 – Darla Sedlacek
For sure. sports in general, women’s sports in general, you know, has grown dramatically in the last couple of decades prior to that, less opportunity to, you know, feel that connection with physical strength, perhaps, but very specifically jujitsu, and you know, perhaps other martial arts but jujitsu? Most definitely it is a platform for them to experience the power of their bodies that maybe they’ve never connected with that before. So most definitely.

56:08 – John Lawrence
I’m all for more women on the mat. I mean, I said in the last podcast, I think they’re, I enjoy coaching everybody, just to be clear, but like, I would say, I enjoy coaching women like to 15 to 20% more, just, it’s just easier. It really, it really is. I mean, I thought about what I said on the last podcast, I was listening back to the podcast as well to make sure I didn’t say anything stupid, which I did at the end. But there is a sense of entitlement that men seem to have around, like, the ability to fight it’s like, meant men think that they’re that they have an inherent ability to do two things, fight and be good in bed. Like, like thinks they can fight and they’re gonna find me one that doesn’t think both of those things like walk up and ask him right. Like, there’s this there’s a sense of entitlement around both those things like bro, I can put it down like either one. whichever one you’re talking about. They can put it down. You go based on what like why do you through what extensive training do you feel like you’re able to fight?

57:14 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, I’ve never lost the fight. Right?

57:17 – Darla Sedlacek
Never been in one either.

57:24 – John Lawrence
It does seem to be that does seem to be a thing that like men carry around that like women just don’t like you go to women. You go Do you want a fight? They just go No. Yeah, you know, like, No, I don’t know how to fight. And that’s just it. If you ask a guy who doesn’t know how to fight, he will try through some, you know, mental gymnastics to give you and himself a reason why he can fight. You know, I don’t I don’t I couldn’t tell you exactly why it is. But

57:53 – Edgar OtraVez
I like to think it’s like some kind of like, inherent biological thing. Like if Vikings integrados Yeah, it Viking show up on the shore. You’re gonna need some dummies to like, try to stop them who’ve probably never even lifted a sword ever. And they’re like, I could take that, like, you know, I can I can take that guy out. Yeah.

58:12 – John Lawrence
Definitely. Like, I’m definitely, maybe a little. This might be a little simplistic. I really do feel like the presence of testosterone in the body. I mean, we know that this does something for aggression, right? Yeah. I mean, and you I can’t remember what podcast I heard this. But I heard this anecdote about this. This this woman who was she was transitioning to I don’t know what the proper language is. I’m doing my best here to become a trans man. Is that a do it right? Is that a female to male, female? That female male? Yeah. And he was he was riding, riding on the subway, and had just started like hormone therapy a few weeks prior. I wish I remember the source of this the story, it’s just sort of a plain one. And any goes you know, I used to ride the subway and I look at a woman and I go oh, I wonder you know what she does for a living and I wonder if she would be nice to take out to dinner and what her interests are and then started the hormone therapy got on the subway subway and it was just like tits ass face hot. want her and like the whole inner dialogue just changed just because of like the the presence of, of the testosterone? Like I do think obviously socialization. Yeah, like, I think everything’s a blend of nature and nurture. I’ve heard

59:35 – Edgar OtraVez
similar things about women who are transitioning to men that the introduction of testosterone doing doing weird things in terms of like, you know, just making them sound more like men, you know, like,

59:46 – John Lawrence
I wish I could remember what podcasts are heard it on because it was it was it was like a famous person who had like, good transition, and they were like, they were telling this like story about their experience. Maybe I’ll think of it and posted I can’t remember

1:00:00 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, testosterone makes us do stupid things because even guys who end up getting smart when he’s well,

1:00:07 – Darla Sedlacek
it’s probably like a learning curve too. Because if you think about an adolescent male, when hormones are changing and increasing, perhaps there’s a different experience there, then perhaps, then an adult male who’s been through that, and you’ve adjusted to things in a way, and you’re able to, like, incorporate and then transcend those changes. So like, for someone who’s just getting a rush of brand new testosterone, it’s almost like, the early I would mean, you know, I’m hypothesizing like the early phases of puberty when it’s so it’s a rush, you know, whereas an adult male who has already been through that whole process, there’s a less rough experience, right? I mean, but certainly, you know, that the nature nurture, there’s always there’s always both, we can’t we can’t ever really know how much one, you know, explains, as you know, a percentage of behavior, but they’re both it’s both nature and nurture.

1:01:08 – Edgar OtraVez
Definitely. Oh, for sure. I mean, I’ve already been to the emergency room. Was it like three times in the last couple of years, because of my son, he keeps doing wacky stuff, jumping off of stuff going down of trying new ways of using the slide, and I’m like, dude, just just sit down, just sit down, you go down, and it’s like, no, I gotta do this. And it’s like, we’re gonna end up in the hospital.

1:01:35 – Darla Sedlacek
And you tell them in Spanish? To go back to the point? I don’t know, I don’t remember if it was your John said about women just admitting that they don’t know how to fight. And part of your question about getting more women comfortable with training, that goes back to like, part of my, my mission, in sharing jujitsu with others, all everybody. But part of particularly why I would love to see more women participate is because not only the benefits, we already talked about, of course, the social connection, of course, they feel differently, they act differently in their relationships. But when it comes to defending themselves, all the literature suggests that to effectively thwart an attack, that one must use forceful resistance at about at the level of the attack. And most often, women do not know, like John is saying, you know, anecdotally, but I also in the literature, like women don’t know how to do that. And they often are not taught how to physically defend themselves. They’re told well use your keys and scratch their eyes, or kitchenware accounts, or just pretend you’re crazy and yell really loud. Yeah. And those things do not work. Absolutely not. They do not work. There’s been like I said, I’ve let you know, I’ve looked at a lot of the research on this. And it in order to stop an attack, forceful if it’s if forceful, aggression is being utilized, forceful resistance equal to or more than what’s being used in the attack has to be given back. And so you know, there are effective ways to do that. And guess what, jujitsu is one of the most effective ways to forcefully resist and attack. So for the people that are interested in learning self defense, I think that’s a really important distinction to make. There are other martial arts that are perhaps pretty, but not effective. And I speak from experience. I’ve been trained in taekwondo for a long time and my black belt in Taekwondo. And when I started thinking about teaching self defense, there were some things missing. And then I knew why I wanted to do jujitsu as I started thinking about trying to teach self defense again, is like there has to be this component. And I knew jujitsu was very effective. And that’s what I wanted to get my expertise in, if I was going to continue to do that. When women show up, and whether it’s because I’ve talked their ears off and other contacts and like, you know, I’m always like, why are you gonna try jujitsu? It’s great. Oh, it’s so fun. And it is very fun. And it is an absolute joy. But it is also one of the most effective things that women can do to protect themselves from attack. And certainly the types of attack are going to be different based on you know, their age, if they’re college age, it’s definitely going to be in the context of dating and relationships. If they’re past the college years, it’s might be more likely to be something that still may involve somebody they know. But it’s not going to be At a party where there’s a lot of drinking, and, you know, what are the things that usually occur in college campuses, so get people to learn how to swim so they don’t drown. And I think jujitsu should be viewed similarly, they should learn some jujitsu. Because at some point, they very often we’ll be faced with a situation where they need to assert themselves physically, to stop advances or stop and attack. And if they have absolutely no idea how to do that, that’s a sad thing for me, because the knowledge is there, if we find a way to get the knowledge out there, and then we’re gonna make people much more safe when it comes to attack.

1:05:41 – Edgar OtraVez
So when you have a new female students show up, are you a little more attentive to that person when they show up? And because they’re female? And you know that there’s a little I mean, there’s a lot of discomfort in jujitsu, mostly because of the proximity of the opponent, do you? Do you try to be a little more attentive to that person? Or do you just kind of let them figure it out? You don’t want to? Or do you just take it by ear? How do you get it so that you try your best to make that female student stay? Um,

1:06:09 – Darla Sedlacek
I don’t, I wouldn’t say that I’m more attentive to new females. I think anybody that’s new, I’m very attentive, because I know for anyone stepping in the gym, takes a lot of courage. So I’m very welcoming, like, welcome to my home, come on in. Let me make you comfortable. Can I get you something? Can I get you a GI? How about a GI? Let’s get again, I’m just kidding. But you know, I feel like I welcome people into my second home, because that’s basically what it is, regardless of who and what they look like, what gender they identify with. When female students come in, I will say that, you know, when they find their way to the women’s classes, it’s fantastic. Because the other there’s a culture with the other women that is very supportive, to the extent that a woman might might feel uncomfortable, some don’t some wanted, like, they’re happy to jump right in, and wherever it doesn’t matter what what class, they maybe are, or you know, they might be interested in women’s classes, maybe they’re not, and that’s fine. But for the women that are maybe a little squeamish about training with guys, especially like, let’s say they walk in the first night, and it’s a very big class. And, you know, there’s a lot of variety in in the students. A lot of them are very strong and, and to a new woman, looking at the group and seeing a lot of really big wrestler, guys, that could be very intimidating. So I think when, if that is an issue, and they are squeamish, and if I sense that, where if they tell me sometimes they’ll just tell me, Oh, my God, well, I will, you know, make sure that they know that they’ll be taken care of, and that they can join the women’s classes, they can come to the introductory classes, and I will see to it that you know, they’re taken care of, but I don’t lead with that I you know, they come in and if I if I get the feeling or if they tell me that they’re, you know, nervous or struggling or squeamish, then I’ll address it, but I don’t lead with that.

1:08:11 – Edgar OtraVez
So, when you first started jujitsu, were you nervous? I mean, because I mean, there was a time where I would even be nervous, just going to practice. All right, you know, I get a little nervous right before rolling with, you know, certain people, you know, because there was always there was a few things and he was like, I want to perform well. I don’t want to lose. There’s all these like silly things, especially in the beginning that you think about where you were you intimidated and nervous for starting now. Wow, really? Zero. Yeah. Wow. You see, I think I think for like when I first started going over it Pedro’s I was on the verge of throwing up almost every time I showed

1:08:50 – Darla Sedlacek
Ah, no, see, I think it comes back to it was like my, it was the new challenge. So I was excited. And I, you know, I couldn’t wait to get on those mats every single time

1:09:01 – John Lawrence
where she’s programmed herself to interpret nervousness as excitement, right? More positive way to frame it.

1:09:06 – Edgar OtraVez
Oh, I see. Right.

1:09:09 – Darla Sedlacek
And, you know, so and remember, I had been in martial arts and I know, you know, they are not the same, but I at least had a framework for martial arts. I had a framework for intense physical activity. So taking an hour and a half class was not like, you know, physically. Yes, of course, the big tech, you know, joint locks and chokes is it is a different sort of intensity than other physical activities it engaged in. But I like physical challenge is not something that scares me. I welcome it. So in that way, it was like Yeah, bring it on.

1:09:49 – Edgar OtraVez
A horribly nervous person. I wrestled in high school. I did kickboxing and I was nervous for all of it, and specifically one of the hot Are there times for me where, whereas when we had to actually spar and kickboxing, I loved it, and I wanted to be there and I wanted to do the things, but sparring scared me so much, because I get beat up so bad sometimes. But I mean, it was part especially back when I was practicing there was, it was all about hard sparring. Yeah, we were, it was so old school. Every, every round was a life and death. Like, every round we were, it was, we’re going all out. And some of those will get knocked out. Some of us did. And a lot of times we’d leave we leave with broken something or a bunch of bruises. But I mean, I would put on my gloves. So slowly, I would write my hands. And it seemed like it took an hour for me to put on my wraps. And then I will put all my gear in Did you hit all this stuff? You had had gear, you had gloves, you have you know, stuff for your legs, you got pads? It i It felt like it took forever and it but once I was in there, all that is gone. Right? You don’t have time to think about all that stuff. But just putting all that stuff on. And maybe I carried that on. You know, every time I you know, I went to something new but there was always there’s always a little bit of nervousness less so nowadays. I think I’ve maybe gotten too old to think about that kind of stuff.

1:11:27 – John Lawrence
There’s a fly harassing Darla just got a factor. And it was just instinct it got close.

I literally just now my body just

1:11:48 – Edgar OtraVez
want to flag it’s in the house. It kills me, man. I can use it all over the house.

1:11:53 – John Lawrence
With that break. Can we maybe just step back a little bit? I wanted to say something about the self defense aspect. I think I think that people always have questions about like, self defense in jujitsu for self defense and jujitsu in the context of self defense. And I think it is one of the most confusing subjects that exists. I think they’re I think people are confused about what they’re asking about when they’re when they talk about jiu jitsu for self defense. When it comes to the self defense aspect for women, the one thing that that I get a lot, and like maybe this, this means something toward the end of summer, I always get dads who have a, like a girl going off to college, you know, in 30 days, or whatever he goes, You know, I just want to make sure she can handle herself. So we’re gonna get her some self defense lessons. And I just feel like going this. This is so pointless. I mean, or, or maybe almost pointless. You could give somebody like, maybe a false confidence that turns into real confidence when it matters, I don’t know. And like I said, Darla studied this, and she can maybe speak to it. But that for me is very frustrating. When I get somebody who just goes, you know, we want to just do a two hour self defense clinic and then the boxes are checked and the bases are covered. And we’re good, right? We’re good. And I want to go you’re not? You’re not good. Yeah, this is this requires many years of diligent training. And even then we see men and women who are like, a natural athletes crumble, like under pressure. And like we might not even totally understand why. So when I say anything about that, it just drives me crazy. That that that specific scenario.

1:13:33 – Darla Sedlacek
Yeah, I some people would say a little dose is better than nothing, you know, maybe they remember something. So you know, there’s that if someone really wants to be effective at finding their person. Yeah, it takes a lot more time, a lot more repetition. What I mentioned about that shift from appreciating what one’s body can do versus how it looks. It’s not something that is going to happen in a two hour seminar. It’s over time it comes not only from the practice of jujitsu, but it comes from the interactions that come with jujitsu, so like practicing with teammates, and there again, I think jujitsu is very much there’s a relationship aspect to it, the relationship you have with teammates that are your friends, maybe that aren’t your friends, people that maybe you don’t like you’re afraid of getting smashed or whatever. There’s a there are so many nuances of sparring and practicing with a lot of different people that I think is what hones your ability to navigate your your space with another person. So for a teenage girl who’s going off to college, yeah, it’d be nice if that teenage girl when she was about, you know, eight was brought in to the gym and Anna was in kids classes and maybe graduated to women’s classes. And short of that a dad that does jujitsu and maybe you know, for whatever reason the girls can’t get to those classes, I think maybe just you know, Dad doing jujitsu with daughter or getting the daughter to wrassle around with a mom and for moms around, like, get getting comfortable with wrassling, which a lot of boys, you know, they do the backyard MMA there, you know, kill the carrier, all the games that are played, which I played that by the way. But you know, getting comfortable with, like roughhousing, and I think that would go a long way. As long as you know, it’s mediated in the right way. So like, let’s say, a dad is roughhousing with the daughter and the daughter starts get upset, says, Dan, stop, then I think that has to be recognized as Okay, she’s tapping. Okay, let’s stop. And maybe there’s a teachable moment there that the dad says, Hey, I’m really glad that you said stop, and I’m gonna stop. And if I didn’t, what would you do here? Let’s play around a little more. Show me I’m gonna show you maybe what you would do. And again, this is for a dad that does jujitsu. So I think that optimally, kids would be involved in jiu jitsu to learn how to assert their boundaries, and to learn the physical techniques of forceful resistance. But outside of that, if a parent is involved with jujitsu, they can play around roughhouse with their kids in ways that teaches them how to speak up for themselves, and then how to use some force to make a physical interaction stop.

1:16:45 – Edgar OtraVez
You know, I never thought of the whole tapping as part of asserting your boundaries, it makes so much sense. Like, that’s so important, especially I think, for everyone, but I think women especially I think women, women really do need to set boundaries a little harder than men. That’s amazing. I’ve never thought about that. It’s such a good point.

1:17:05 – Darla Sedlacek
Yeah. And on and along that line, you know, a lot of getting the socialization piece, you know, you’re supposed to be nice, don’t make a scene go creating conflict. Any more, it’s a loud and proud, ah, no, tap them out. Yeah, awesome.

1:17:27 – Edgar OtraVez
So kind of riffing on the idea of, of how men think that they can just, you know, take on any bad guy, and also the whole kind of, like, self defense thing. We recently at my company had one of those active shooter kind of trainings. And it’s, it’s, you know, first of all those things are like, rough, it’s just like, you’re sitting there, and you’re thinking, wow, you know, if someone comes in this building, right, all this kind of nonsense could happen. But then like, afterwards, when the presentation wasn’t bad, you know, a lot of it was informative. But the after part, there was a part where we went around the building, and we talked about the different ways that we can, you know, escape, should an active shooter come into the place, the talk of all the people associated with the little walk around, was just driving me nuts. And all I could do was just sit there and not say a word, but everybody was like, kind of, like to John’s point, well, you know, of a bad guy came in here, I take them down and beat him up, and I hit him with this, you know, fire extinguisher, and then I, you know, fly, kick them. And I’m like, Dude, what are you talking about? If an active shooter comes in, comes in here, we’re probably gonna get shot, you know, like, in me, we should all probably, like, try to take them down as a group, you know, but I couldn’t. I couldn’t bring myself to say anything. Because the other thing that popped in my head was like, Well, these guys need to believe that they can do these things. In order for some of us to be able to survive a situation where an active shooter comes into play. But I mean, the there needs to be some kind of training and one month of training is not going to cut it not a walk through through a building either. None of this like you need to be like to die this point, you know, it would have been better if you know the person showed up at you know, eight years old, right? The the walk around, it’s not going to cut it in there’s just it’s it just drove me nuts, man. Like all the talk. It’s all it was all dudes, all dudes, all the dudes were like, Yeah, I do this. And I was like, Why, man? Why are you saying that stuff? Yeah. And it was funny because this happened almost right after we had our conversations, John, like it was fresh in my head. I’m like, oh, no, here we go.

1:19:55 – John Lawrence
Any idea that you have, I just think you have to have a reason why you think What’d you think? If you have a good reason? I would take that guy down. Why do you think that? Oh, I wrestled in college. Okay, well, yeah, you might, you know, but you would get other people and other contexts where it’s like, well, you know, if I, if I got a situation like that I’d pull up my Glock and I’d shoot the guy. But why do you think that? Well, I don’t I mean, I, because I’ve watched John Wick a lot. I think you have to have real, like, real reasons why you why you hold the opinions that you do. Sometimes you ask people why they think something and they just go just because. Okay, well, that’s, that’s entitlement. You know, so yeah, I mean, I don’t have I don’t think I’ve seen anything else about my frustrations there. I mean, it’s

1:20:47 – Edgar OtraVez
your voice. Yeah, it’s just, yeah, it’s just one of those things. So we’re coming to the end of the podcast here. Darla, do you have anything you want to plug before we go?

1:21:02 – Darla Sedlacek
Um, I, it’s hard for me to do that. You gotta, you gotta wait. What I would say is I would just love for more training partners keep showing up at hurricane. And I think you have that website, Hurricane jj.com. We have so many classes available. And for anybody that squeamish. We have very nice intro classes on Mondays and Fridays. And for women in particular, we have a great women’s program. We have classes on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. But any class if you’re able to just show up, and any of the coaches will take care of you no matter where you know, no matter where you show up, just show up. And we’ll take care of you.

1:21:47 – Edgar OtraVez
John, you got anything you want to play before we go.

1:21:49 – John Lawrence
I can’t really think of anything. I feel like we hit pretty much everything. I suppose there’s anybody listening to this who’s like a sort of like a behind the scenes Instagram stalker, they’ve never been in for like a class or anything, I would just say that we’re going to run a special intro event. On Friday. Normally, intro class is 45 minutes. Dollar does a great job with that. It’s just I feel like sometimes 45 is a little tight. So every now and then I like to I’d like to come in and just do like a longer once we’re going to do an hour and a half intro class. So that’s from six to 7:30pm on Friday.

1:22:23 – Edgar OtraVez
Is that this Friday or next Friday? That’s this Friday. So I will be posting this Monday.

1:22:29 – John Lawrence
Oh, well, if you came, I hope you enjoyed it. Yeah. But as we as we do those in the future, maybe I’ll just give you a heads up so we can, you know, do it but come to intro class on Monday and Friday. Because Darla does that every Monday and Friday, she does a really good job with new students. I think it’s one of the reasons that Jim has been as successful as it is because she is like a very effective on ramp to to the program. I think maybe sometimes like it’s difficult for advanced instructors to like keep their head in the game when it comes to like having brand new people. And also kids and she does a really good job with both.

1:23:08 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, that’s awesome, man. Well, thanks guys so much for coming on. Man. I really appreciate you coming on, man. It’s, it’s this was great. I hope we can do it again sometime. Yeah, I think it’s probably Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

1:23:22 – Darla Sedlacek
Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Well, this

1:23:24 – Edgar OtraVez
is Edgar OtraVez with Darla Sedlacek. And John Lawrence from Hurricane jujitsu. And we’ll catch you next time. Thanks. The music you’re listening to is titled “Y Ahora Vamos” by DJ Timbero, and you can find that over at Epidemic Sound. Man, this was a huge honor for me. I mean, it’s always an honor to have John on but since the first time I’ve had two black belts to jujitsu black belts on the show at the same time. Also, it’s the first time I’ve had a sports psychologist. I’ve had other mental health professionals on before, but this is the first time I’ve had a sports psychologist. And it was great to kind of like poke her brain on some of these topics that I asked her about. It was a great experience. I can’t wait to have him on again. Funny thing is after we stopped recording, we still talked a little bit and we’re like, oh man, I should put this in the podcast too. But hopefully we’ll do it again. So make sure you check out both the hurricane site which is Hurricane jj.com. That’s John’s school. Make sure you check them out. They have awesome stuff and as you know they have a women’s jujitsu class. And don’t forget to follow John on Instagram as well under the name hurricane dot J J. Now, if you want to find Darla and pick up on some of her services, she is a sports psychologist and I believe she does other things as well. She’s just a really impressive lady. Make sure you check out her website. It’s DrDarlased.com And make sure you also follow her on Instagram under the name Darla said don’t worry about all those links in the description so that you won’t have a problem finding either John or Darla. And if you’re digging what I got going on here, make sure you check out our website, the Flow Roll podcast.com. There you’ll find a complete catalogue of all our episodes and a store where you can purchase a merchandise and help out the podcast. And make sure you follow me and your Edgar OtraVez under the name Edgar OtraVez on Instagram and make sure you follow the show under the name, the Flow Roll also on Instagram, and if you’re diggin the show, please like subscribe, comment and share wherever you get your podcasts at and press all the buttons and make the podcast Gods happy. Thank you so much for listening. This is Edgar OtraVez. We will catch you next time behave yourselves. Laters.

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