171: My First 30 Days as a White Belt – BJJ Black Belt Ramses Bugarin

0:04 – Edgar OtraVez
What’s poppin’? My name is Edgar OtraVez. I am the host of the Flow Roll Podcast. And today on the show I have a special guest. He is part owner of Living Arts jujitsu in Willowbrook and he is a Jiu Jitsu black belt. His name is Ramsay’s Bugarin. And we’re here to talk about Jiu Jitsu. Now if you’re new to the show and you want to find out more about us, make sure you check out our website, the Flow Roll podcast.com There, you’ll find a complete catalogue of all our episodes, but I also took those episodes and slid them in into nice little playlists for you. So like if you just want to listen to Jiu Jitsu or combat sports, I got playlists just for you. So make sure you check that out. So in this episode, we’re talking about the first 30 days as a white belt. So this is for you white belts. This is the second edition of this. I’m gonna see who else I can get for this series of episodes that are centered around the white belt. Buckle up, and I’m going to warn you this one gets a little gross. This one’s kind of like rated PG 13. Touching rated R mostly because of grossness not because there’s like adult content or anything like that. So buckle up. Now on with the show.

So welcome to another episode of the Flow Roll Podcast. I am Edgar OtraVez and today I have a special guests. We have Jiu Jitsu Black Belt and owner and operator are co owner and operator of Living Art Jiu Jitsu here in Willowbrook. I have Ramsay who got eaten already. Why am I why am I so bad at that? I don’t know. I feel like that’s harder for me. For some reason. I like I rather say we’ve got

1:50 – Ramses Bugarin
I mean, I don’t like I think we started last time. I don’t think it’s

1:55 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, what do you think it is?

1:56 – Ramses Bugarin
They told me it’s Bulgarian. They’ve told me it’s Russian. I’ve never looked looked it up.

2:00 – Edgar OtraVez
Okay. All right. So one of the things is we had a conversation you and I Ramses. And we I guess at the school, we’ve been having quite a few new white belts, great problem to have, yeah, a great problem to have. And I love it. But they’ve been, you know, I’ve had a conversation with a couple of them. And they were like, I don’t even know what to do, you know? And I’m like, oh, and so, especially when it comes to like the brand new white belt, a white belt with no experience in any kind of martial art. What are some of the things that you would advise for the brand new white belt.

2:38 – Ramses Bugarin
So sometime after we had like, made plans to have me come back to talk about this, I was scrolling through Facebook, and it’s probably a mis attributed quotation kind of like they’re all miss attributed when you’re scrolling through social media, but it was one by Mitsuyo Maeda, and I made a note to remember it verbatim, I’ll mess it up. But let’s work through it. That slow is smooth and smooth as fast. And so like, especially with really, really zealous white belts, overzealous white belts are beginners, you know, I guess we don’t get too many of the ones that are just crazy high energy spazzy you know, and a little bit dangerous. We don’t get too many of those. We moreso get the people that are a little too timid. But either way, you know it’s a that’s a good like axiom operate on that. You might want to move frantically or faster, you know, get to your objectives quickly or get to the grips or positions quickly. But especially when you’re new, you want to try to reel that back in a little bit and try to go as smoothly and as deliberately as you can. And just really shave as much of the rough edges as you can offer the movements early.

3:58 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, that’s something I still do. Like, what was it? A week ago, we were working on that was that that pass? We’re an old we’re going for a leg drag. And I was just having trouble doing it the way you were showing it. And it’s because I never bothered using my hip with the way that you were showing it as it’s like, oh man. I don’t know why, but I’m having a hard time and I was trying to go through it fast because I was initially I thought this is not a big deal. I’ve seen this before, you know, or not even that it was just like I could do that. Yeah,

4:25 – Ramses Bugarin
so this this, this looks doable. Yeah, whatever. And then getting to it, like, maybe takes a second more of like, deliberate thought than you thought. At first. Well

4:35 – Edgar OtraVez
100% And yeah, I totally underestimated how much more I needed to be able to do it. Because I was like, oh shit, I just can’t get this. I’m like, Alright, I need to slow down. You know, and I think that’s a that’s a really good piece of advice.

4:48 – Ramses Bugarin
Like I said, we don’t normally get too many people that are just like crazy frantic and a few here and there. But like the the one gentleman we’re talking about, but yeah, he’s he I haven’t seen somebody equate that spazzy and a little while

5:01 – Edgar OtraVez
talking about that the 18 year old,

5:04 – Ramses Bugarin
one of the two of the newer people that,

5:06 – Edgar OtraVez
oh, I know what you’re talking about.

5:08 – Ramses Bugarin
I had to tell a couple of times, like, hey, take, take 20% off of there, you know, it’ll, it’ll pay, it’ll pay dividends in the long run. Also, you know, we don’t want to hurt our trading partners training in an unsafe way. I want to figure out a way to better communicate that to a new person, because, you know, if you move too slow, or you know, you’re gonna get crushed a little bit, nobody wants to get crushed. And also, it’s uncomfortable when you’re new to dealing with you know, somebody’s shoulder in your face or, you know, close in your face is fixated on you a little bit, how to effectively communicate that. You want to move a little bit more slowly, a little bit more thoughtfully, a little bit more deliberately, because in the long run, it’ll pay bigger dividends and trying to smash through things and, and run through things too quickly. And then, on the way there, if you’re going a little too fast, you’re gonna make your partner eat a bunch of knees and elbows on the way and especially when you’re new, you don’t even notice it. Like beat him up. All of a sudden, they’re just mad at you and crushing.

6:08 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, you know, I gotta I gotta say that that’s happened. I mean, I’m sure I’ve been on the receiving end. And, and I’ve also been like the giver of that. Yeah. Whereas it’s like, okay, this guy just popped me for the third time.

6:20 – Ramses Bugarin
There’s like, there’s no way he didn’t notice that. Yeah, he didn’t notice they just elbowed me in the face.

6:25 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, we had a visitor not too long ago. That big guy. I don’t know if you remember the big the big dude. Yeah, he’s a trucker. Yeah, it Mexican guy. Yeah. And I mean, I was trying to be real nice, but I think it was pretty evident that I was pissed off.

6:37 – Ramses Bugarin
He came at me with like a like a strange energy to his gas pedal was like fast and fast and slow. from one moment to the next. I was it was a little weird. Try to tire him out for the rest of the room a little bit. So he wasn’t quite so erratic. But sorry, I think that was mine. Okay. So he wasn’t quite so erratic. But yeah, I remember I remember the guy. Wasn’t it wasn’t too. I don’t think he was mean spirited. But he had a strange pace.

7:02 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, I think he he didn’t have a lot. He didn’t have a large gas tank. So he would guess out and then sit there and rest for the whole round. And then right at the end, he wanted a burst out of stuff. flurry of activity. Yeah, yeah. And just so that you could say that he came out on top on the end of the round, kind of steal the round, I guess. Yeah. I don’t know. I was just like, Dude, chill out. What the fuck, you know? And like, the last time I rode with a guy he taught me like, he came up and he hit me in the in the chin and a bit my tongue and a bit it pretty good. Like, I had a little piece of tongue hanging out. Yeah. But I didn’t realize how bad it was. But I was like, I can’t talk. And I’m a little pissed off, and I’m talking to you. And I was just like, oh, and so I just there was like, 10 seconds left. And I was like, Alright, man, we’re good. That’s it. And I walked away from him. And he was like, well, let’s go. And I’m like, Nah, I’m good. We’re done. We’re good, man. You know, I just didn’t want to roll with him because I knew I was upset. And I was just going to do something stupid and maybe hurt him or him or hurt myself. So I was like, No, I’m good. No good. could come with it. Yeah, I’m, I’m good. Just let me let me sit. Let me call off. Yeah. I didn’t say that to him. But I was like, Yeah, I’m good. You know, and I walked away, and I sat down. And I’m like, sitting there, like, feeling my tongue. And he came over and he was trying to apologize. I feel bad. Because I thought I was being good about breaking away from him.

8:23 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, I was probably the right choice. But I think maybe he could tell, you know, trying to make amends for it. Yeah, it happens. I mean, that’s best case scenario. Worst case scenario, like you motherfucker. And

8:33 – Edgar OtraVez
yeah, I would never do that. I am too much of a, I don’t know, I’m too much of a wimp to do that kind of stuff. I wouldn’t do that. You would have to really get me pissed off to do something like that. And I don’t know, I think you’re probably the same way in terms of like, you really have to get really angry.

8:47 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, I don’t think I couldn’t see myself doing that. Like, Yeah, who knows? Everybody has a breaking point. But yeah, for sure. But um, tolerance for getting?

8:58 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. So I find it interesting, like one of the things that I learned initially, and I thought that was a great help, and I brought this up to you was because I didn’t know what to say to some of these guys. They were like, well, what should I learn? And I’m like, fuck, I don’t know, all the positions, you know, everything you know. And I mentioned to you that one of the first things that helped me a lot was learning what my old instructor called the immobilization clock, which is just basically a routine that takes you from different dominant positions. Do you have anything like that that you would recommend for a student?

9:31 – Ramses Bugarin
So for better or worse, whenever I get somebody new or a handful of a crop of new people, I sort of ended up catering to their needs first, because the dilemma or quandary whatever the right word is, the tough position. I find myself as an instructor is I know what it’s like to be new at something. And there’s a lot of objectives in jujitsu, especially when you’re starting out like there’s your defensive goal. goals, there’s your offensive goals, there’s just like your survival goals and just another branch of the defensive goals. And my objective as a teacher is to try to impart enough of these, like an understanding of what the goals are as quickly as possible to new students so that they can at least understand, like how to engage a little bit or like what they need to do a little bit in every situation. So they can have a little bit of fun with it, because I can’t teach that much jujitsu that quickly. You know, even the most eager and the most knowledge hungry student, like we’re only going to learn so fast. But if I can tell them, Okay, your mountain you want to get out, or your the person is lying down in front of you playing guard, you want to get around their legs, I can at least tell them those objectives and remind them of those objectives. So that, you know, the techniques will come. You know, as you keep coming to classes, just remember that those are your objectives. So for the time being, until we get to covering all of the specific situations you’re going to run to run into like breaking out of a closed guard or passing a spider guard or you know, specifically how we escaped mount or how we escaped side control. For right now, it’s good enough that you’ll know that you want to get out of mount, you want to get out of side control. And if they’re playing guard, you want to get past their garden on the way there you want to avoid submissions and defend your balance as much as possible. So I feel like maybe I got away from your question a little bit. But like whenever we get a new crop of students or a new student that knows nothing like zero athletics experience, zero wrestling experience, and more importantly, zero jujitsu experience, I run it back to the basics, you’ve probably seen this lesson a million times, I’m sorry. But you know, basic guard retention drill, you know, so you know, to keep your legs in between you and your opponent. And then some basic escapes. And then just like a handful of sweeps from basic positions, or a handful of submissions from like the common dominant positions like a Camorra, from a closed guard and Americana from the mouth. So as far as like the responsibility of a new person, like what they should be learning, just focus on your own safety, focus on the safety of your training partner through you know, the whole, slow is smooth, smooth is fast, you know, sort of Axiom deliberate movement, and you know, making sure you’re doing things thoughtfully and not recklessly, and then just show up to class because, like I said, for better or worse, I’m pretty acutely aware of like, when new people are there, and like, oh, they need to see X, Y, and Z. So they can have the most fun today, and they can start having the most fun with us.

12:38 – Edgar OtraVez
Do you do you have like a sense of urgency when you get a new student where it’s like, I need to get this guy, at least to the point where he can kind of swim a little bit like just dog paddle?

12:49 – Ramses Bugarin
Absolutely. So I have like a million little little stories in my head of like how my last teacher did it wrong, like, you get a new guy, no experience, I think it was a dentist. His name was Jay. And like, on his third on a second class, maybe even first class, you started warming up with some some bullshit Judo combination of foot sweep to Gucci Mata to hip throw, you know, three moves that he laid out no context for. And like, even like the advanced students in the class, you know, like just running through the motions, like, What are you even doing here, none of us are getting better at any of these three moves. None of these are, I don’t even think these moves go well together. And even if they did, we’re not being explained. Nobody was explaining how to use those moves in sequence. And then I’m sitting there, you know, I signed the guy up, I took his money on behalf of the gym. And then like, I see this guy, just not knowing what the fuck is going on. So I try to partner up with them and explain to him okay, well, this is like the foot sweet. This is how we would set it up, we would use it in this context. And then by the time I got to explaining him, like kind of how to do the first move in this 3g, throw sequence or whatever, we moved on to the next thing, which was something completely unrelated doing guard now, you know. So like, that was wasted time for that guy. Yeah, that guy did not get better at learning how to take somebody down. He just learned how to do some strange dance, and he’s gonna forget it as soon as we stopped doing it. So yeah, I do have like a really big sense of urgency. Because that day I didn’t stick around. So yeah, whenever I get somebody new, I’m like, Yeah, I definitely want him to learn X, Y, and Z. Because if he doesn’t understand those things, he’s going to leave the class like, what the fuck just happened? I’m sweaty. I’m tired. And I didn’t get any better. Yeah. And then after, after a month or two of that, like, you know,

14:44 – Edgar OtraVez
I feel like you and I have had the same instructors here and there. Yeah, I’ve had I think I’ve told you I’ve had I’ve had an instructor in between, because I mean, like I said, the honor brothers. I love those guys. Those guys were good instructors. But you know, you leave that area and you look for new instructors and I ran into what sounds like a very similar instructor. I would almost Yeah, I’m very surprised that that’s actually almost the exact same kind of scenario that I went through there.

15:16 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, that is like, you can, you can just phone it in and be like, show whatever bullshit. And a lot of the people will just, like swallow it and just be like, Okay, this guy must know what he’s talking about. And then X, Y, or Z. And I personally don’t feel like I have like the brand name recognition and jujitsu. I definitely don’t, you know, like, I have to prove why what I’m saying is worthwhile, because it’s going to work later on for you in the role, hopefully, later on in the class, or you’ll walk away. If it didn’t work, you know, because it doesn’t always work on the day, you’ll at least walk away with the greater understanding of how that all fits together. But yeah, for better or worse, I tried to cater it to not the lowest common denominator in the class. But if there’s somebody that’s pretty new in their first week, I’m not going to be showing like something very esoteric, you know, as I’m gonna want to end if I do, because sometimes I have to, like when we were getting Alex ready for Naga, there was a one of our newer guys, Mark had just joined. And I think we were talking about half Greg passing. I’m like, Well, there’s a lot of context that a completely new person doesn’t understand about, like, we use our legs on each other. Yeah, one of the ways we tie up our legs on another human being is this thing called half guard. One of the bad versions a half guard is getting caught in a flat half guard. You know, for the top person that’s great for passing, passing is this thing where you pass somebody, you know, just, you know,

16:40 – Edgar OtraVez
yeah, there’s so much there that they have to absorb, right?

16:42 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah. And there’s so much that, like, I have to take time to explain at least a little bit, or else, it’s just like, you know, what was the point? I just wasted that person’s time. Yeah. And

16:52 – Edgar OtraVez
so then if, let’s say, he’s brand new, and he comes in, and you have, you have the ability to see you, you have Jim or somebody else running class, and you have the ability to, like cater to this one person. And he’s brand new, you would you would show him bottom top, what would you show him first,

17:07 – Ramses Bugarin
You’ve probably seen this class or this less than a couple of times, but at least what I’ve done more recently, like when we were preparing Alex for for a tournament, and Mark actually had his trial class, I explained to him like, Hey, this is a little bit sports specific, I’m going to get to something with you, is gonna make a little bit more sense, it’s a little more fundamental, just stick through this for right now you will see it again, and its relevance will become clearer eventually. If it doesn’t today, you know, I probably say that phrase, very often, I hear myself saying it very often to like new people. If it doesn’t connect with you today, don’t worry, it’ll connect with you later, hopefully, just a bear with it. And you and I will do something that makes more sense to learn right now. Right, just, you know, not apologize. But explain, hey, this isn’t something I wouldn’t necessarily show somebody on day one. But we’re going to do something that makes more sense in a second. But anyway, if I had only day one, people are people in their first week or something like that, the class would go, kind of as follows. We would do our, you know, solo drills can ask to get natural, you know, little warm ups, leg, pummeling, you know, bridges, those sorts of things, to teach them what those movements are about, or even just how to do those movements. And they’ll be applying them later, unconsciously, and then teach them what a shrimp is on their hand on their elbow on their shoulder. And then we would get started with the guard retention, that, you know, you’ve probably seen me run through a million times, you know, just open guard retention drill. And then there’s a handful of other ways that that lesson could go sometimes I start them with some closed guard sweeps. Sometimes I start them with some really basic open guard sweeps against a standing opponent like the like the dummy sweep or a tripod sweep. And then sometimes one submission like a Camorra or an Americana. And sometimes I don’t even get to all of that, but at the very least, they learn how to retain their guard a little bit, they learn a dummy sweep. And then by the time technique is over, we can at least do a little bit of positional sparring between them and them and myself. Hold on to your guard, while I try to pass you lightly. If you find a chance to knock me down. Go ahead and knock me down. If I get past your guard for a moment, make space and get your guard back like we learned in the drill. And then I explained to them like there’s 1,000,001 ways you can try to knock me down or try to retain your guard, you’ll probably chance upon something that I didn’t show you go ahead and try it because it’s all about experimentation to the first always. And I just let them know what the objectives are, especially in that little situation. If you’re out if you’re on the bottom, hold on to your guard. Don’t let me get past with whatever legal means you can you can muster and if you find a way to knock me down, go ahead knock me down and hold me out for three seconds. And on the other end, you know, the objectives are reversed. You try to pass my guard, don’t let me knock you down. And if you can get past my guard, hold it for three seconds, you know,

20:09 – Edgar OtraVez
you know, it’s funny that you bring up the shrimping. I feel like shrimping is so important. And I understand that a lot of gyms make it important by, you know, making you do shrimps up and down the mat and stuff. But I never, like especially those first few years, even even as a blue belt, I felt that I know how to shrimp. I know how to shrimp up and down the mat. But I couldn’t apply it as good as I could have. During a roll. I feel much better about it. Now. I feel like I understand it much more how to apply it and whatnot. But those first years, like, you know, I had my coach told me Hey, yeah, you gotta learn how to move your hips. shrimping is important. And I’m like, okay, yeah. All right. But it like it didn’t really, like get in there. You know, like, I understood what he said, I know what the words mean, you know, it’s just, uh, but I just didn’t realize it until much later. Yeah, and, and I feel that that’s, like a super important piece, especially when it comes to the fence. And as a white belt, you’re gonna end up on the bottom a lot. You’re gonna get smushed, you know, even even, especially if you’re a brand new white belt, even other white belts are going to miss you, especially brand new white belt. Yeah, yeah, so that’s gonna suck, right. But like, the idea of being able to scoot your hips out. Man, if I would have known that I think I could have avoided so much so much. smushing, right, like, didn’t sink in until much later. And it was something that I had to kind of figure out for myself.

21:33 – Ramses Bugarin
Well, like, I think it’s a waste of time, most of the time to just make people shrimp, if they’ve never seen it before. Just shrimp up and down the mat, like, I could show you, as long as you know, get to a point where you understand how to do it. We don’t need to practice it every day. Yeah, you know, there’s better things. Because, you know, we see a shrimp or we see hip movement, and like, so many techniques, but it doesn’t look like a shrimp down the mat, it doesn’t look, you know, it’s a good framework for how to move the hips, but it doesn’t get specific enough. And, you know, just making somebody do that down the mat. It pays less and less dividends. You know, I 100% agree, you have to show it to him, like in context, why it matters. I do it a lot in my kids class, because it takes kids for whatever reason, a long time to learn how to do it right. And to give structure to something like solid that they can get like solid reps on and I think for for kids or younger bodies, I don’t think it’s like necessarily a waste of their time. In my, in my more advanced kids class, I do it a little bit less. Now I trying to focus more on on teaching newer techniques, and you know, explaining concepts, giving myself time to explain concepts more thoroughly, but like, Yeah, after a little while, like, you need to see those movements in context. And sometimes I do my best at least to try to mention like, Oh, you’re going to use something like a forward trip here. Something like a backward trip here, a hip heist here. So that it makes sense to them in the, in the larger scheme of things.

23:13 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, but I could see how that sometimes maybe an adult might find that a little boring. Oh, we will shrimp again.

23:18 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, and I get probably apologize to the class a little too often. Like, yeah, sorry to bore you guys. This person needs to see it. Let’s do some shirts down the mat. And then it’s sometimes I don’t, I don’t always regret it either. Because I’ll catch some people like they could use a couple reps to clean it up. And that doesn’t. That’s not necessarily indicative of anything. They just, you know, their prime, maybe their technique is sound, but they just haven’t practice strips and a little bit so it doesn’t look as smooth as it could there. Anyway,

23:47 – Edgar OtraVez
I hear you. So one thing that I kind of did with one guy who asked, because he was like, Well, you know, how do I do this? And I was like, Damn, he doesn’t know anything. And it’s not like a comment on him. You know, it’s not his fault. It’s, you know, he’s, he’s no, that’s why he’s taking the class. He’s here to learn. But I’m like, wow, like, you know, usually when I run into someone who’s new, they have some wrestling background or they have some kind of combat experience. This guy was a clean slate. I was just like, a lot of our guys are totally clean slate. Wow. Yeah. That’s amazing to me. I think it’s kind of cool. You know that they’ve gotten this far and they haven’t, like, gotten anything else to tarnish the canvas. You know, I’m saying because you pick up like, we’re like, you know, again, nothing bad. Nothing against wrestlers. I’m a wrestler. I did high school wrestling. I not a little fox folkstyle I was a sucky wrestler, but that’s neither here nor there. But like, like wrestlers, they have good balance. They have that top game, they already come with some kind of baggage do they want to turn their back the moment they hit the floor? Because they you know, they’re trained to not put their back towards the mat. That’s all good, like they haven’t experienced but then that whole, not putting her back on the mat, that that can cause a lot of trouble for a wrestler. They’ll get there I take it and they’ll get choked out or whatever.

25:01 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, I at least recently, I’ve haven’t found that. That’s too big of a hurdle to overcome. I think that like, having a wrestling bracket background has more pros than cons. You know, honestly easy to explain that to somebody, you’re back in touch the ground and like, that’s okay. Yeah, you know, the habit usually kills itself pretty quickly.

25:21 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, I still feel funny. Towards the end the white belt about putting my back on the ground. Yeah, it took a while because then I got to blue belt. And then I was like, Okay, I know I’m the biggest guy here. should pull guard more often. Like, I can’t be the big guy. swishing. You know, the 130 pound guy. It’s not cool, right? Yeah. So I played a lot of, you know, on my ass a lot. So I got over it. And blue belt, but like my whole time white belt. I kept getting my bag ticket, you know, because I couldn’t break that habit. You know, I hit the back and then boom, I turn around and like, Fuck, I just screwed myself up. Took a minute. It took a minute for me. But I mean, I’m, you know,

25:56- Ramses Bugarin
it might be where I start people to everybody, more or less, I start on their back summit from day one. I get it early in their head that it’s okay to be on their back. Everybody’s different to maybe, maybe it was always going to be like that for you, no matter where you. Who was your teacher where you’re where I went started, you know? Yeah. But I think it’s I wish, sorry. I wish I’d done wrestling earlier in life in high school or whatever. I think it’s a great base.

26:28 – Edgar OtraVez
One thing I did so like, like, I was talking about this guy, this guy was a clean slate. And he was like, I don’t know how to even sit in your guard. I was like, Oh, shit. Yeah. So I was like, sitting there, Allah. Well, this is how I do it. If Ramsey has told you something else, he is the single source of truth. Go with what he says he’s the black belt. Right? But like also too much credit. But okay, sure. Well, yeah, but like, also, like, I’ve seen you teach stuff. And I’m like, Oh, I know how to do that. I’m like, Oh, you do a different. And it’s better. You know, like, there’s been some situations where like, Okay, I need to, like, do it this way. Now. Because I like this better, this works better, I can see why it works better. You know, that happens all the time. So when you teach something new, it doesn’t bother me, because I’m like, waiting for you to show me something different about the new. The or I shouldn’t say, new. I mean, when you teach something old, that I know, before that I’ve known from before. I like seeing how you teach it because then there is something there that I can take away, even if I know it, or even if I think I know it as well, as I think I do. Sometimes there’s a little detail that you show that I’m like, Oh, was that always there? I never paid attention to that before. Oh, shit. I’ve been missing this piece. And somehow I’ve been getting away with it. But now this is so much easier, because you showed me that little thing as having a hammer. It’s happened a few times. Whereas it’s like I know that move from top to bottom. And then you add just a little piece of it. And it just kind of cleans everything up. Cool. Cool. Yeah. So like, when don’t feel bad, at least for me, for me, like if you have to teach something brand new or mean something old, quote, unquote, don’t worry about me. I always end up learning something new, even when you teach something old.

28:06- Ramses Bugarin
Okay, that’s good. That’s validating a little bit too. Like, sometimes I feel like I over explain things or like, I don’t know if they needed to hear. I don’t know if those five sentences could have been two. Especially recently, I’m feeling real self conscious. Like, man, I’ve been talking a lot. He’s still with me. Yeah, sure. I’m with me right now. Yeah. And he does try to, you know, make it more efficient verbally. You know,

28:30 – Edgar OtraVez
I think I think that’s a good practice. I don’t, I don’t have a problem with, with the way you teach. Sometimes it’s me, like, sometimes I show up. And I’m like, I am here. And I just, I’m amazed that I made it here. And I’m going to try to get through this class. And sometimes I’m like, just not because of you. Just because I’ve had a full day of bullshit. Yeah. And then like, my I’m just spacing out. And it has,

28:52 – Ramses Bugarin
it’s got to be a little my fault, too. Yeah. No, I do not have to think about it that way else. I’m just gonna be a bit a bit.

29:00 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, everybody, well, I appreciate your conciseness when you when you break down stuff, but then also, if I asked you something, I’d be like, hey, you know, what about this, or, you know, you always you’ll add a little extra more and help explain stuff. So that, so I’ve always appreciated the way you teach. And again, if you want to teach basic stuff, it’s not going to bother me, at least not me. I always feel like there’s something new that I can learn even when there’s something that I already know. But going back to this guy who was who was a blank slate. So I was sitting there with him. And I was just like, I don’t even know how to, like, there’s too much here for him to learn, right? And so I said, Here, we’ll here let’s do this. And I did a little bit of what you’re talking about where it’s like, these are the basic things that you need to know, or principles that you need to know in these positions. And we didn’t do a lot. It was just like, you’re going to try to pass my guard. You’re going to try to like try to stand up. Be careful. I can grab your ankles or whatever, I can knock you down. So watch your balance, and then try to get your legs around right and so I told him You’re going to win, I’m gonna let you win. But understand, we’re gonna go about 20% I’m gonna try to give you a real look, I’m not going to do anything stupid, I’m just going to let you have it. But I’m going to react like, I’m going like I should, right? And, but you’re just going to manage to get past. So just know that if you do something stupid, I’m not gonna let you have it. So try to like, be smart about it. So we went through it, I gave him like a Flow Roll at 20%. He stood up, he tried to pass and he did all right, he felt better about what he was doing. And I as he was going, I would explain some things. And then we kind of kept going a little bit more and more, a little, with a little more intensity. But I thought that that helped a guy a lot, you know, but I also told him, I was like, Yeah, you know, talk to Ramsay’s about what you what you can look up, right? Because he was like, Where do I go? What do I look at? Yeah, do I go to YouTube, and I’m like, there’s some people who don’t like the YouTube. And there are there is a lot of bullshit there. But there are some basic things, some basic movements that you could probably learn.

30:58 – Ramses Bugarin
I’d say these days, I haven’t done like a cold blind search in a while. But like I’d say, these days, there’s probably more more good stuff and bad stuff. It used to be, you know, the other way around, where you’re gonna just see some, some crazy stuff that’ll never work on a on a resisting opponent. But there are so many, like really good, high level athletes, you know, just put put content out there for free. And what might be missing is a little bit of the context for that person. You know, like if that guy looked up a nice light pass, and he found John Thomas teaching a nice light pass. And John Thomas, I love watching his stuff. And I learned from him all the time. Some of the context might be a little bit a little bit missing, because he’s, he’s trying to nice slide past the toughest of people in the cleverest of ways. But that’s that’s definitely good data. Definitely good info. You don’t need to be, like super super versed to probably be able to parse out what’s kind of bullshit from what’s something that would work. But yeah, I’m not. I wouldn’t want to be the kind of person that says like, No, don’t go to YouTube. Don’t go to Instagram, because there’s so much good stuff. Like I go to YouTube and Instagram all the time. I see. It’s like, well, that’s cool. Yeah, this this seems a valid or like this. Could use a trial run, you know, like, I could test this out for myself. But yeah, I could probably put together a list of names or something for a new person of coaches that put out good content that that is like pretty reliable. I should do that.

32:28 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, yeah. There’s something you could like easily throw up on like, Instagram. Yeah,

32:33 – Ramses Bugarin
Absolutely. Like these 10 names is what I look at. Look at too, you know, so there’s a lot to choose from these days.

32:40 – Edgar OtraVez
Oh, so So who what are those ten names are they times you have? Yeah,

32:43- Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, I mean, the all of the B-Team guys all of the New Wave guys. John Thomas is awesome source in the GI. Lachlan Geils or Giles I don’t know how to pronounce his last name.

32:56 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, I know he’s talking about you’ve mentioned them before too.

32:58 – Ramses Bugarin
He’s super, super cool. And and all areas need gi no gi he puts out a lot of good instructionals a lot of good content. The movement art blackbelts there I think Mikey Musumeci first blackbelts any and Danny and Nick. I study from them a lot.

33:15 – Edgar OtraVez
I don’t know those guys, but I know Mikey Musumeci.

33:18 – Ramses Bugarin
Oh him too his instructionals are really really verbose. Really? Oh, super off, dude.

33:26 – Edgar OtraVez
He’s like John Donaher, then?

33:27- Ramses Bugarin
No, it’s worse. It’s worse? Donaher verbose, but he’s like, precise. Okay, you know, Mikey is very verbose and not always precise. Ah, yeah, like if you if you watch you know, anything on YouTube from either one, you’ll see the difference like Donaher will will use 10 sentences when he couldn’t use one or two. But at least in the 10 sentences he really communicated himself well. Yeah. Mikey will say a lot of stuff. And sometimes what he’s showing will be different than what what he’s saying he’s like, alright, you have to put your arm on top. For instance, there was one moment and like the his Baron bolo DVD, you have to put your arm on top of the back. And literally, His arm was underneath Tami’s back. Yeah, his sister’s Uchi for the for the like, you know, how many other things did he did he say inaccurately or did he get right also? Yeah. He’s almost too detailed. The angle of his wrist and you know, he could he could have pared it down a lot to make it a lot simpler and communicated a little better for certain of his instructionals and I’m gonna feel real weird criticizing Mikey Musumeci on a podcast.

34:34 – Edgar OtraVez
He’s like the nicest dude ever.

34:36 – Ramses Bugarin
Well, yeah, he is super cool. Super nice. But I mean, like, you know, and obviously way better at jujitsu than I’ll ever be. So it’s kind of weird that you know, feel like any sort of right to criticize teaches and some of his DVDs, but I know a lot of people agree with me. Yeah. All respect obviously. He’s a fucking gangster.

34:54 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, for real. He’s a beast.

34:56 – Ramses Bugarin
But yeah, so like some of his earlier DVDs and like “Oh Jeebus.” You know, it’s it’s tough

35:03 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, it does get hard. We talked about this before when you have to like when you’re trying to watch a an instructional and it’s like homework. Yeah. And it’s just like, Ah, I gotta get through this but god damn.

35:15 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, like are you get through the chapter? And I’m like this chapter could have been two minutes no, it was 10 something like that.

35:24 – Edgar OtraVez
That drives me nuts I just man yeah I just yeah I like it when they’re just like okay this is the move this is how you use it boom now I mean I appreciate the

35:36 – Ramses Bugarin
detail but to some of them they go they go too far yeah I’m not communicating it well like you know what I mean by that but it’s like you know what watch a Mikey’s Baron bolo DVD and then I’m gonna have

35:47 – Edgar OtraVez
to I’m gonna have to go pick that up just like and see what you’re talking about. I haven’t that’s one guy. I haven’t picked up any instructionals on is Musumeci. But I don’t even know if I’m saying it. Right Musumeci of actually. Yeah. One of them. Yes. So one thing I did want to mention is something like the super basics, and maybe we can come back to, to positions and other things that people should learn. But there are some like super basic things that I think white belts, in general may not be aware of. And some of them are like tying your belt. Oh, yeah.

36:23 – Ramses Bugarin
Okay, but that that level of basic Gotcha.

36:25 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. Like So learn to tie your belt. You don’t need to tie super fancy. I know. There’s a lot of people who like to do the weird Oh, I’m gonna tie it this way. I’m gonna make a loop and I’m gonna put it not you know, just tell you about doesn’t matter how you do it. Right. But also, I have a note on here because of one of the one of the conversations you and I have had in the past and that’s don’t smell just in general. Yeah, don’t smell bad. Don’t smell nice. Just don’t smell. We shouldn’t notice. Yeah, we should have noticed I’ve been in jujitsu for a while I’ve had all kinds of dudes and you know, all kinds of smells. Dudes show up with like perfume or cologne or whatever and they just stink up the room. What is your opinion in that kind of stuff?

37:09 – Ramses Bugarin
Um, so my only real concern as like a business owner in terms of smell is if if you smell rank that is how staph and ringworm and that sort of stuff get passed, which means you left your GI sitting in the bag you know At most I don’t think I’ve had to tell really anybody at our school I usually try to tell people the day of like hey, wash your gear after every use even if you if you sweat in it at all wash it even if you didn’t think you sweat probably still wash it you don’t want to be the smelly guy. I think I tell everybody that when when I’m when I sell them the ghee or given their frisky because that’s yeah, you know, we don’t want to give anybody ringworm. We don’t want to give anybody staph and also straight up just unpleasant. I haven’t had to, you know, call anybody out for it. In terms of like the perfume or the makeup. I’ve had female training partners that get really annoyed when somebody walks in with makeup. Is it like gets on the GI or they have an allergic reaction to it. Female training partners I’ve had have been annoyed when other visiting females or newer people that are trying to class they come in with a bunch of makeup on because it stains the GI or there’s an allergic reaction. I don’t personally give a shit. Yeah. Because I don’t think that there’s been any makeup that like just stains a GI permanently. Yeah, it gets some foundation or whatever the hell you call it on my white gi Whatever. Whatever. Fill in the blank makeup product to my wife. Yeah, I don’t really care. Yeah, it’ll wash out. You know, I don’t only think this had really stained my gear like blood, I guess. So, if it causes somebody an allergic reaction, I don’t know how common that is. Yeah, but you know, whatever makes you feel comfortable. I’d say if you if you want to look a certain way, you know, before you go out into public, you know, including the jujitsu gym, I wouldn’t want to tell somebody, they can’t wear their makeup or they can’t do their, their personal routine, you know, in order to accommodate the expectations of the class. That might mean that I lose that student I don’t think that’s a that’s a hill worth dying on. You know, wear your makeup, you know, do do whatever you want, you know, just probably going to come off if you’re training hard, you know, you’re gonna run or whatever, you shouldn’t smell bad, because you know, you want to have a clean GI and all that but if you are a person that doesn’t wear deodorant, I mean, how bad are you going to smell you know, without that deodorant. I don’t think it’s terribly much a problem. You know, as long as you’re clean and your stuff is clean, you can smell all natural, you know? It doesn’t bother me that might bother might bother some people Yeah, excessive perfume or cologne. Again, like back in my musician days when we play clarinet and orchestra or wind ensemble or some thing we were told not to wear perfume or cologne because it can cause an allergic reaction. Cologne. Yeah, just any any any, like, heavy sense like that you’re not supposed to wear, you know perfume or cologne because some people might be allergic to it and then you know, you mess up the performance. You can’t breathe and you know, play trumpet, oh, Jesus Christ. I don’t think I’ve ever run into that in the training room, you know, some people have come in with like, a lot of some kind of product, and they’re very noticeable. But personally, it doesn’t bother me. If it were that big of an issue. For the for the rest of the room, I would hope somebody would tell me and then maybe I can address it professionally. But, you know, my biggest priority is, you know, be clean, you know, to the, you know, the level of hygiene that is like expected of a person that lives in the first world decide. And then yeah, tighten your pants tie on your belt, you know, that’s a, you know, good good basics that I that I probably show everybody on their first day, but if they’re having trouble remembering I can repeat it to them. It’s no big deal. Yeah, I

41:06 – Edgar OtraVez
just, I don’t know, maybe maybe there’s something where maybe this isn’t my giant schnoz or something, but it’s just like, I can smell stuff. If if you stink, just oh, I just can’t, I can’t stand it. Like whether your stink good or bad. Like, I’ll, you’ll get in my nose. And I just I can’t I can’t even concentrate the whole time. I’m just avoiding your pits, or avoiding your breath. And that’s just me breathing in between you breathing, you know, I’m just holding my breath and hoping that you don’t breathe at me. Or whatever it is, you know, but like the perfume? I don’t you know, usually it’s not a big deal. It doesn’t really bother me. But if it’s a lot, it’ll do the same thing. It’ll I just can’t I can’t think I’m distracted. I must be on the spectrum. I don’t know what my deal is. But like, but like it drew it throws me off, you know? Yeah. And I was just like, Oh, I just want the other thing too is like, at least for me, because I’m married. I don’t want makeup on my Yeah.

42:03 – Ramses Bugarin
Like, whose hair is this? Like? I don’t know. Like, yeah,

42:05 – Edgar OtraVez
I think it’s yours. Like, it’s blonde, like, Baby you like, you know, bleached or hey, you know, just like Jesus. Yeah.

42:13- Ramses Bugarin
I guess I can empathize with that. The the cleanliness thing is really the only hill that I find worth dying on. As a business owner. The rest is like, Yeah, whatever. I can get over it.

42:24 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, me too. I mean, I’ll just we’ll roll with the person. I’ll just avoid them, you know, especially if they have excessive makeup and perfume. Or they just think I’ll just be like, hey, you know, but sometimes you can’t, you know, sometimes you’re like, yeah, here we go. I’m trying to hold my breath. I’m just holding my breath for five, six minutes is

42:42 – Ramses Bugarin
people with the chronic bad breath or whatever. And like, at least, as far as I can tell, with some people, it’s not even really a bad hygiene thing. Like some people just smell weird in different spots. You know? What are we gonna tell them? I don’t want to make them feel bad. Yeah. If I can tell that they’re straight up, unclean. I will address it. Yeah, I’ll try to be nice about it. There was there’s one I had a conversation I had, and I tried to approach it as delicately as I could, okay, brother, like, like, just, I don’t want to offend you or anything, like as your gear clean. And then like, yeah, like this last role. I smelled you a little bit. And then he says, Oh, I didn’t wear deodorant. I like, that’s totally fine. You know, to you. I just want to make sure that everybody gets that conversation in case because it’s not always obvious to everybody. You gotta wash your stuff, because in any other contexts, they stick their, you know, they they wear their gym clothes, maybe they just stick their gym clothes back in their bag. Oh, back to the gym. And I don’t mean like gym isn’t the jujitsu gym. I mean, isn’t like they went to lift weights. They were the same gym clothes twice in the day. I think that’s a little more common out in the regular non jujitsu world and, you know, then we might, you know, realize, so some people might think that it’s okay to do with a GI.

43:54 – Edgar OtraVez
It is not along the same lines, bathing just in general, like, I’ll try. Usually the bathing the morning, so make sure that I don’t smell like ass or piss on the mats. Because I’ve had that happen. Actually, I had one guy like, from another gym. We were rolling. And, you know, you you see my pressure passing. I’ll smash a guy does get peed on himself. Really? I didn’t know. Oh, no. Yeah.

44:26 – Ramses Bugarin
Like you saw the spot form.

44:27 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, I didn’t realize it. Like I smelled something. But I was like, what was the smell? But you know, I didn’t really care. Plus, were sweating. Right? So like, you don’t really feel anything? Yeah, he didn’t say anything bad. Was it like he had a giant bucket on his pants. So yeah, this guy he had this giant fucking ring on his pants. It went from like, you know, from his waist area down to like his knees. Yeah, it was bad. And like I didn’t realize this. You know, we’re rolling out on you probably. Oh yeah. Well 100% Yeah, so we’re rolling and you know, part of the way, you know, I feel a little something warm, but um, you know, I don’t really think about it, you know, because we’re sweating, you know? So I was just like, whatever, you know. And so I kept rolling. And eventually the bell rings, he stopped, we sit down, and I’m tying my belt, you know, putting my gear together. And I look up and this dude has this giant fucking ring on his pants. And I’m sitting there is like, yeah, and I’m sitting there. I’m like, is that sweat? Why is it? Why is it there? And I’m like, Oh, no. And I sat there and I said, Okay, I’m done. You know, it was actually one of those days where it was just like me and him. And so I was like, okay, man, I’m done. Thanks for coming. Well, we’ll see you later, man. And I, you know, he jumped in the shower. I jumped in the shower, and Mitch scrub super hard. Then when he was gone, I mopped the mats. And I never told anybody but until now. Well, I didn’t want to embarrass the guy. Did he not know Oh, I he fucking knew. And they just didn’t say no, he didn’t say anything. He thought I guess maybe he thought or hoped. Maybe he hoped that nobody would see it. You know, but I’m sitting there and I look up and I’m like, What the fuck? And he caught me looking at him. Because he did one of these where he like you’d like turn and try to cover it? And I’m like, oh, no, you motherfucker. Like when he when he started trying to cover it up. I’m like, Oh, you peed on me.

46:29- Ramses Bugarin
Oh my. Oh, dude. I woulda fucking jumped into a fucking volcano. So bear.

46:35 – Edgar OtraVez
Oh, bro, I fucking scrubbed. Like, like, to the point where it probably like lost the layer of my skin, you know, saying because I could not. I felt like I could not get myself clean enough. And then you know, I got I got as clean as I could. And I fucking scrub the mats. I scrubbed the mats. And I think I may have told somebody you know. So yeah, like, I may have called the instructor and told him Hey, man, I screw up the mats. You know, but I don’t think I don’t remember telling anybody. Cuz I was like, Well, hey, you know, by the way, this guy peed on me. Like, what the fuck are you guys doing over there? Yeah, so I was just like, Fuck,

47:17- Ramses Bugarin
no, nothing. anywhere near that bad has happened to me.

47:21 – Edgar OtraVez
I’m a little hypersensitive to it. So like whenever amortized Yeah, I don’t know if I’m traumatized. But I can smell pee. Yeah. And so there’s been a couple of times where like, we’re at the gym and I you know, somebody may have not shucking the leaf a little cleaner.

47:37- Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, I you catch. I catch up with that here and there.

47:40 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, it happens.

47:41 – Ramses Bugarin
I don’t know what it had. It gets even worth. I don’t think it’s worth addressing.

47:45 – Edgar OtraVez
I mean, what do you what are you supposed to do? You’re supposed to tell like, I mean, I don’t know. Like,

47:50 – Ramses Bugarin
I’m sure that happens to somebody where they just pulled up their their underwear a little too quick. And well, that’s there. Now

47:56 – Edgar OtraVez
that’s happened, man. Sometimes, you know, you get a little peepee stain or whatever.

48:00- Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, fuck it, you know, but what am I going to do is, you know, set my shorts on fire.

48:03 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah,but that’s that’s, but you know, that’s, that happens. Yeah. And it’s not uncommon, right. And so like, there’s gonna be a little bit of that. And I’m sure I’m grossing out the the brand new whiteboard right now. But I mean, really like that it that is an extreme case where this guy peed on himself. And since then, I try and, and that I try not to smoosh on a person. Unless he’s being really like, stubborn about letting me pass. And then I’ll go ahead and what kind of paths are you doing? It was just like what you’ve seen from me before? Over Under? Yeah, well, just just the mu the leg wrap where I just dropped the shoulder into the stomach and, you know, but like, you know, this guy, he’s like me, he’s a hobbyist. He’s a computer jockeys, not an athlete, you know? And so I dropped the shoulder on his stomach and he emptied his fucking bladder. Yeah, do and to be fair, I probably have some fault in that, because I should have probably not have done that to the poor man. You know?

49:06- Ramses Bugarin
How much sauce were you putting behind the pass?

49:09 – Edgar OtraVez
Dude, I would. I would like when I learned how to do that. I was like, Oh, I’m doing this all the time. And that was just smooshing everybody just hard like dropping all my weight. You know?

49:18- Ramses Bugarin
Like, he had a head like a full tank he like he probably knew he needed to pee and didn’t pee and pee and then just

49:26 – Edgar OtraVez
and then let it all out those days. Yeah. Well, maybe that was his like, fuck you. You know they will fuck you. You You’re you’re squishing me. I’m gonna pee on you now.

49:35 – Ramses Bugarin
So he then he just inks you like an octopus

Jesus that would not be my knee jerk. I’ll show him.

49:50 – Edgar OtraVez
Just learn to defend.

49:52 – Ramses Bugarin
Oh, man, I gotta go to the bathroom.

49:54 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, just tap or Yeah, see, there’s no harm is it? Hey, man, I gotta go. In the back. So we’re a bunch of buddies, like we’re kickboxing or whatever. And I was young, like 16/17 years old. One guy got in the ring. He got kicked in the stomach real good. And then right in the middle of the ring, he was like, oh, fuck, fuck, and he just left. He took off his gear on the way to the bathroom. He was just popping his head gear off his gloves, everything and he ran to the bathroom because he had a shit. You kicked them so hard. He already had, I guess, you know, some poo in the tank. Yeah, but then like that, that kick. Meet him like, Fuck this. And then he jumped out of the ring. And the guy’s like, where are you going? And he was like, I gotta go. And he left us taking all this stuff off. We just laughed our heads off. He wouldn’t took a shit. Like, oh, get out here. We’re telling we’re telling him naughty stories.

50:48- Ramses Bugarin
I don’t want to hear this. That’s That’s hilarious. But it’s I wonder what gets what got hit that he just like had to evacuate.

50:56 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, I wonder how he how he got kick. Right. Like where exactly do you need to kick? What’s the pressure point?

51:03 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, the only only thing close to that that has ever happened at the school is like, I might have told you this last time. But I’m repeating myself but one of the kids. He he asked to go to the bathroom. And he hadn’t come back in a little while. And then Jim went to go check on him. And apparently he just like exploded. Or kid well, he he’s a he had a real nonchalant attitude about it like you almost like he like he slipped and fell, slipped and fell on the chocolate mat. He gave him one of these he opened the stock because he saw just a giant mess everywhere. In the stall. He saw the kid just covered it. Like, yeah, that’s the worst. And he dealt with that I didn’t. I was I was busy teaching the class. And I was like, Oh, he’s probably fine. He’s just you know, hanging around in the bathroom. He’s, everything’s too tall for him in there. So it’s taking extra extra long and yeah, but no, he is he had just exploded, apparently. Oh, he was at the urinal. And that just, it just exploded while he was. Yeah. That’s the worst thing that happened to us.

52:09 – Edgar OtraVez
Oh, dude, there was I must. I don’t know what it is. Maybe I’m a magnet for this kind of shit. But there was no there was one time I was assisting with the kids class. And this, there was this kid, he was a little bit of a Trump, you know, a little bit of a problem. Like he was a troublemaker. But you know, like, he just it was one of those cases where like, his father wasn’t as present as he should have been. And so he was, you know, acting out that kind of deal. So, we tried to like discipline them, but also like, Be cognizant of the fact that he’s, he’s got this, you know, home family life. That’s not structured. Like everybody else, right? Anyway. You know, in the middle of class, this kid takes a poo, he pulls in his pants. And I’m sitting there and I’m like, helping right? I’m assisting. You know, there’s the teacher. He’s, he’s teaching. And he’s attending to the class in general. And me and a handful other guys were, you know, attending to the kids that need attention. And so I was sending to this kid. And I’m like, What is that smell? You know, and he’s just sitting there like…

53:18 – Ramses Bugarin
When it’s not in a toilet. Yeah. Smells so much stronger. dropping into some water. Toilet that does a lot. Just out in the open like that.

53:30 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just like, what? It smelled like baked shit. You know?

53:36 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, that’s what it smells like when it’s not in a toilet.

53:39 – Edgar OtraVez
And it’s just, it was like, oh, no, like, what is? Where is that coming from? And I’m like, smelling the kids. And I’m like, going, like, fuck you know? And the one kid that was right next to me that I did not like, sniff and also you try to do this without like, without being a weirdo. Because you got parents watching you. And you’re like, going around sniffing the kids. Like, you’re gonna be like, What the fuck are you doing with my kid? You know, so I was like, you know, very sneakily going over to, like, stick my nose over them and just try to like a frickin hound dog. So like walking around. And then finally, like, I figured out, it’s this kid, and I’m like, oh, no, not this kid. This poor kid. And so then that wasn’t there was like, Nah, the mom was and the mom was, you know, that’s, that’s another topic. But yeah, okay. But like, but like, so I’m sitting there and the kid, the kid, I’m like, smelling them. I’m like, Are you? Are you okay? Do you need to go to the bathroom? Do you want to go clean up or something? Or, you know, try to be sensitive, right and try not to let on that. I know. Trying to give him an easy out. He’s little doesn’t get it. And he’s probably embarrassed. So he said, No, I’m fine. You know, nothing. And I’m like, really? Because I see like a little Yeah, a little patty. Yeah, you know, like on the back there. Right. But I don’t know of course I don’t say that to him. But like I could see like once I figured out it was him. I can see there was a little patty. And I’m like, You got a little poop patty, like, fuck, alright, so then I’m like, Okay. And I’m trying to figure out again, I’m new to teaching at this point. And I’m like, I don’t know what to do with this. So I remember the instructor, I’m like, No, this, this happened. And he’s like, Oh, crap, we’ll get into the bathroom man. Like, you know, get them out of here. Get them off the mats. I think he I’m pretty sure he left like a little, a little nugget, you know, on the mat, which was another problem. But yeah, so I take that, you know, I think that kid I take him to his mom, very sensitively. But, you know, try to tell her what happened. And like, I’m pretty sure, I think he you know, he poo’ed himself, you know, he goes away. Yeah. The mom is like, Okay, are you sure? I’m like, Yeah, I’m like fucken smell him, you know? And so she’s like, Okay, well, let me take them on. I take them. So she takes him and she spends like, the rest of the class, another 30 minutes, or whatever it was in the bathroom. She pops out of the bathroom. And she’s like, oh, there was nothing there. There’s, he’s fine. And I’m like, you are so full of shit. You know? Like, they’re there. You know, at one point. Those pants were. Yeah. And I’m like, whatever, you know, do whatever you want to do to save face. I don’t care, you know, but get that kid and all is bacteria off the mat? You know? Yeah. Because that’s all I cared about is like, I didn’t I don’t hazard it’s a health hazard. I don’t want to I don’t want to embarrass the child. I want to be sensitive to everybody’s feelings and egos etc. But I also I’m sure you can understand this. I also have a responsibility even if even as an assistant coach to the other kids that are on the mat. I don’t want them to get sick. I don’t want them rolling around and shit. You know? Because I know what that’s like.

56:49 – Ramses Bugarin
Pee is much cleaner.

56:51 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, yeah, coming out, I guess coming out of the faucet. It’s ammonia. Mostly right? But then after a while it sits around and gets bacteria.

56:57 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah. No, I could decadent so badly. Get into somebody’s eye or you know who knows what? That’s not supposed to have poop on the mat. Oh, do that sounds terrifying. And I haven’t had anything quite that bad. Oh, man. Knock on wood. Jim might have told me one. That was one day. It either happened so long ago that I forgot. But uh, he told me he might he might have had to deal with a nugget on the mat situation.

57:24 – Edgar OtraVez
I think that’s something that happens. Because that’s not the first time I’ve heard that. I’m pretty sure some other instructors that I’ve talked to talk to have an incident where the kid left a little…

57:34 – Ramses Bugarin
I think that just happens to kids every now and then. Well, maybe not kids every now and then. But if you have, you know, if you have a pie chart of all kids, there’s gonna be some slice of the pie chart. They’re gonna poop in their pants at some point.

57:48 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. And that nuggets gonna roll down their pants and be left on, you know,

57:52 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah. It’s gonna happen at some point. It’s gonna happen.

57:55 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, but it’s part of the job, I guess, for you, you know,

58:00- Ramses Bugarin
What irks me a little bit is like, on trial classes. I don’t understand why parents would ever think of doing this. But like, Oh, can I leave them here? And like, it’s their first day here. Yeah. And they’re five. How do you know? I’m not a creep. You know, like, I know, I’m not a creep, but you don’t? Yeah, so he’s five. Yeah. Don’t Don’t leave him here with me. Like something could happen. Yes. stubbed his toe or shits himself for whatever X, Y or Z please stick around? It’s 45 minutes. Yeah, please stay and be in the vicinity. So I can you know, if something happens, it’s out of my per review, which is anything outside of Jiu Jitsu? None of that is my purview, like, please be aroused. So you can you can handle it because like, you know, it’s usually just me. So it’s like, if I can’t keep an eye on another five year old, if I’m dealing with your five year old, you know, please stick around, you know?

58:50 – Edgar OtraVez
Um, maybe that’s a good little segue there, too, is like, what, what about the little kids and what parents should do?

58:56 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, so that’s actually good, because it hasn’t happened too often. A period and it hasn’t happened too often recently. But yeah, in the kids class, if you feel comfortable leaving you’re slightly older child, and you want to go shop at Target or something. You know, it’s fine, like a 10 year old will know how to take care of themselves for the most part. Yeah, I really do prefer everybody stick around and I know I don’t at the moment have the most comfortable amenities for everybody. But like, I think it’s good for you to watch class if you have any desire to watch class because I you know, put puts out an effort and all of them and I want to make sure that people are people are watching their their children be in good hands. And also just for the odd emergency here, they’re like, I don’t know like there’s a headset headbutt or, you know, gotta cut here their bloody nose. Yeah, that that sort of, yeah, reasonably. They, you know, they won’t have the hands to address it if something goes a little bit wrong, you know? So it’d be good if the parent was there. round to help me out. And also, I want them to know that like, you know, I want I want this really weird way to put this, but I want witnesses, you know, I don’t want to be alone in a room and somebody’s kid, you know, yeah, I want them to know that everything that’s happening is aboveboard, I’m not, you know, there’s, there’s so many people, I’m sure, because they don’t do background checks when you open your own martial arts school. Nobody cares. You know, if you’re a sex offender, if you did, when kids or whatever, it’s really uncomfortable topic, my backgrounds clean, I can show you look into me if you want or whatever, but I want people to be present as the kids classes going on. So they know that everything that happens is to high contact sport. And everything that I do in terms of, you know, I’m playing around with kids to, you know, push them a little bit or whatever, if they’re, if they’re spacing out, sometimes tickle them or whatever, to get them to, to come back to Earth and pay attention to what was saying. But everything that I’m doing is like, absolutely appropriate for the sport, and absolutely deliberate and thought through. And I want everybody at people to be watching and see that and, you know, build trust over over time. And also, every now and then there’s been some kids that are a little square earlier than than the average. If there’s like a disciplinary issue where they’re just not playing ball with me at all, like, there’s only so many burpees I’m gonna make a kid do or if they’re being just like, outright disrespectful, like there’s been one or two times where like, a kid has just gotten really mad, smack their brother or smacked another kid in class and like, I can’t have that I’m sorry. Yeah, you know, I don’t have time to lecture you. I just like, pick them up by the scruff, essentially. And then like, here you go, Mom and Dad, let them know why. Why what they did was wrong. Yeah. Like I have a class to teach. Yeah. So for, you know, for liability reasons, I guess you could say I want people to watch the class, I want parents to be present. So they know that everything that’s happening from start to finish in the class is, you know, thoughtful, well intentioned, and completely appropriate for their kids. So that there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that anything that happened on the mat was, you know, was a, I don’t know, everything was cool. Everything was kosher. And also, you know, for the emergency, man, I went on for a really long time. I could have made that a lot simpler.

1:02:13 – Edgar OtraVez
No, that’s, that’s cool. Um, so like, I enjoy sitting there and watching you teach. I honestly, there was one time where I was like, Hey, do you need some help? Do you mind me jumping in? Yeah. But for the most part, I prefer just sitting there and letting you teach. I just, I just I think we’ve had this conversation before. I’d much rather just sit there and let you do your job. You’re good at it. You enjoy it. Not that I wouldn’t. I would like to teach at some point. But I’m cool. Taking my time.

1:02:45 – Ramses Bugarin
I’m cool. If you if you’re there and you want to jump in and help with a kids class. There’s never too many hands, man, you know,

1:02:52 – Edgar OtraVez
But I admit I’ll also I also enjoy sitting there with all the other parents and just talking nonsense. Yeah, because I sit there and talk them nonsense. Sometimes it gets a little. I’m like, Dude, I think we got to keep this like fucking PG man. Like, we’re

1:03:07 – Ramses Bugarin
I never noticed the content. Okay, guys are talking about. It doesn’t bother me. Okay, but sometimes it gets a little loud.

1:03:16 – Edgar OtraVez
That happens if that happens. Feel free to tell them Hey, Edgar keep it down.

1:03:20 – Ramses Bugarin
That’s not that’s not a hill to die. Okay. It doesn’t ever really distract the kids. Sometimes it catches me but whatever I can deal with my attention span. That’s not a that’s not an issue. That’s not a hill to die on either.

1:03:32 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, some of those guys. They’re pretty fucking funny, man. That’s awesome.

1:03:35 – Ramses Bugarin
Dude, that’s one of the coolest things as an instructor is like, when it was new. I felt all the pressure on me like I have to entertain that well entertain I have to make sure that I know what I’m what the fuck I’m talking about. I’m explaining it well, and then yeah, I have to roll with everybody have to entertain and I’ve got to like, you know, do cartwheels and jump, you know, and backflips to make sure that attention is being placed everywhere so that everybody you know that it’s worth their fucking time it’s worth your time’s worth their money. And now it’s really nice when people are just friends with each other. And not that I don’t want to interact with people like I do like like all the students and I like everybody but that’s that’s the whole thing you know, you you come into the gym wanting to learn a thing for whatever reasons you had that brought you into the door but I think almost everybody ends up staying either completely or at least a very large part because of the frenzy me know they start talking shit we start talking shit with parents having a good time. talk shit with each other having a good time. You know, it’s not all on me to just make sure that jujitsu experiences as good as I can make it as you know, you want to hang out with your buds and that’s great to see you know that’s always that’s always awesome cool, never gonna never get to be mad at that.

1:04:53 – Edgar OtraVez
I try to I try to be cognizant of, of the community that jujitsu builds and I Want to share that experience? So like, so like, you know, I see you doing what you what you can on the mats, if I can make things a little more fun with the parents that are just sitting there watching, you know, I think, you know, especially for me who was just sitting there watching and prefer to like sit and watch, like sitting there talking to Joe Schmo or whoever, and making jokes and laughing like, that’s fun. That’s fun for me. Like, I don’t mind just sitting there. So great. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s just, you know, again, like, I try to be cognizant again, of the community, you know?

1:05:37 – Ramses Bugarin
If it’s just like six parents sitting there, like, nipping at their phones, you know, hating the next 40 minutes. And they’re like,

1:05:43 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, I don’t want that for anybody. Yeah, you know, so

1:05:46 – Ramses Bugarin
I wish I had a very soon hopefully, we’ll have like, a nicer situation for people to sit and wait. And

1:05:54 – Edgar OtraVez
I’ve also I’ve also seen it like, we’re like, you know, I’ll try to talk to someone, and I can see it puts them off and I leave them alone. You know, like, I don’t want to be a creepy guy. Yeah. Oh, you don’t wanna talk to me? That’s fine. Yeah, I’m sorry. You know, I’ll talk to this guy. This guy wants to talk to me. Yeah. Like, you know, I try to be careful. You know, especially when it comes to like, you know, the female, the females in the gym. This is like, I want to be nice. I don’t want to be I want to come off weird. Yeah, I don’t want to be mean, I don’t want to be rude. But I also, you know, because they see me all the time. But also, you know, just, you know, like, that person’s probably married or whatever. Like, I’m married. To come off the runway. I don’t want any confusion. I don’t want any of that shit. I don’t want any of that fucking trouble. If they don’t wanna talk to me this fine. This is they got you know, maybe it’s me. It’s them. Maybe it is me. Maybe I’m doing something that they don’t like, that’s fine. I don’t need to talk to you. I got plenty of people that could talk to. But anyway, this a weird segue.

1:06:47- Ramses Bugarin
No, but I’m cognizant of that too. Because like, it’s funny. I do my best to not do this so much anymore. But like if there’s ladies in the room, at least introduce myself to them, you know, like, the person just like anyone else. I don’t know why. The knee jerk or like the default is for like men to like, introduce themselves to other men but not introduce themselves to the ladies. You could. That’s respectful. Yeah, it was funny. One of my training partners at Jeff’s Mel, she might come up here and they’re on social media. Anyway, we were at a Midwest finishers is a couple years ago, at this point, many Midwest finishers ago. And I was standing next to my training partner, Chris is a good athlete and a good competitor, up and comer and he’s, you know, definitely locally famous. And, you know, his stock is rising all the time. And I was next to him. And I was about to compete or had just gotten done competing. And then there was Mel, who’s another deaf student, but lady. And there was at least four instances where somebody came up wanting to talk to Chris like, Hey, what’s up to have each other up or whatever. And then I was next to him so they would introduce themselves to me and it didn’t say shit to Mel an inch away from me. Yeah, like it was. I was shoulder to shoulder with Chris shoulder to shoulder with now they would, they would say hi to Chris and talk to him. As you know, that was the original intent, introduce themselves to me and shake my hand and nothing to Mel on like four separate occasions like Dude, I don’t know you’re invisible or something. Yeah, you know, that’s weird. I try not to be that guy. But then also, same thing. I don’t want to like be weird. Yeah. Like, why does this guy want to talk to me? You know, like,

1:08:25 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, this is like you I think I feel like, no matter what you do, you’re gonna lose there.

1:08:30 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, a little bit. But at the very least, I think I could just introduce myself to acknowledge that I saw that you exist, ya know? And then yeah, doesn’t have to, we don’t have to make it any any more involved than that, if you don’t want to meet to draw the clear boundary of like, you know, just wanted to

… be nice. Yeah, greet another human being the exact how do we get on this?

1:08:51 – Edgar OtraVez
We segue off of? Oh, yeah, kids kids class and then talking about the parents in the community. So I want to segue back to just some of the basics. So like, the other thing I want to mention, like keeping your skin clean, right now, I like I was saying like, I meant I sometimes shower before I go to the gym, or a shower in the morning, make sure you know, don’t smell like pee or poo or I’m trying not to poo myself and all that other stuff. But like it is to not. It seems it seems to be hard for some reason for some. But I’m sure I’m like fucking Jenkins jinxing myself now. Now. I’m gonna end up pooing up the mat. But I’m gonna try not to…

1:09:35- Ramses Bugarin
Do whatever it is. Carry you off the mat. Make a signal. I’ll help you out man, just let me know.

1:09:45 – Edgar OtraVez
I’m making a poo patty Yeah. So, but like, Do you have any recommendations or what’s your what’s your POV in terms of like showering after after class showers. Soon as you can use this so don’t use that so don’t shower. what’s your what’s your opinion on that?

1:10:05 – Ramses Bugarin
I don’t really I mean, definitely shower. Well, my the way my day goes I end up taking like eight hours a day there’s a luckily a shower at Jeff’s so like after our morning comp training or if I teach a lesson I shower immediately afterwards. They say like, super hot showers is something to avoid because it can damage the skin. Oh, really? Yeah. If you take like a crazy hot shower, it’s supposed to damage your skin a little bit. And it makes it easier because at least my understanding of it is I’m not a doctor, virologist back to not a smart person.

1:10:43 – Edgar OtraVez
Well, I disagree. I think you’re a very smart person, but

1:10:45 – Ramses Bugarin
I do my best. But yeah, this is not my area of expertise. Understand it is like the staph bacteria staphylococcus such and such or whatever that lives on everybody’s skin. I think it has like a special concentration and like the armpits and groin or something like that. But that’s on everybody’s skin. It’s like supposed to be there. The only time is it’s a problem is if you’re you’re nasty and you never shower and you let that culture over time. And if there’s a break in your skin, and then it gets in there and festers and then it becomes a staph infection. Yeah. Or like athlete’s foot, you know, athlete’s foot is the ringworm, fungus. Okay, that is that is what that is. It’s just you know, if it’s on your feet, they call it an athlete’s foot. If it anywhere else on your body, they call it ringworm. Same thing there. It’s just I think in terms of like health, like ringworm won’t kill anybody. It just looks gross. Yeah. And who wants like in the fungal infection? Yeah. But it’s you’re supposed to avoid hot showers. So shower, something that’s less than boiling hot. When I’m feeling tough. I’ll take cold showers because it’s supposed to be good for you for X y&z reasons, and then moisturize.

1:11:58 – Edgar OtraVez
Oh, you moisturize,

1:11:59 – Ramses Bugarin
I don’t, oh, you’re supposed to, okay. Because like to, you know, to heal cracks in your skin and stuff like that, because that’s really the problem is if you’re damaging your skin a lot, these things will get in there and cause an infection. So avoid super hot showers. I don’t think using any particular soap is super beneficial because like, well, at least like defense soap or something like that. I think that’s marketing. Yeah, I don’t think it’s necessarily better for you.

1:12:27 – Edgar OtraVez
There was something I read about the tea tree stuff that in combination with I think another oil comes off as estrogen. So like, you get it into your system, and you’re gonna like you’re gonna boost your estrogen levels, and I did not know that. Yeah, I don’t know how true it is. That might just be you know, you know, Jim talk. Yeah, like, bro science. Yeah, bro. Science. Yeah, I’m not sure how true that is. But, you know, I’ve avoided it. Because I mean, I don’t want boobs. I mean, I like boobs. You know, just just yeah, not coming from me. You know, I just you know, but no offense. No, against boobs.

1:13:04 – Ramses Bugarin
No, never offense. But uh, yeah, that’s the only thing that I really, you know, try to avoid a super hot showers and I should moisturize more. My skin gets dry. But I’ve only gotten ringworm once in my 12 ish years. And I’ve only gotten staph once and the staph. That was it was kind of recent, but I was pretty sure that was because I really kind of immunocompromised myself, because I was cutting to 155 for a Midwest finishers. Okay. And, you know, I’ve run myself into the ground plenty in those 12 years, but this was probably the worst. And then I’m sure it’s not a coincidence that staph coincided with that.

1:13:37 – Edgar OtraVez
You know, that makes sense. They really does. I mean, like, yeah, you you starve yourself or you dehydrate yourself or whatever. I mean, it’s gonna happen. It’s gonna happen because you’re trying to cut weight, right? Yeah. And it happens all the time. But yeah, I never I never put the two together. That makes sense to me now. Yeah.

1:13:53- Ramses Bugarin
I think if you’re, you know, keeping reasonably healthy, and you know, you’re reasonably clean. You know, I think you can avoid most things and then I do my bitten every day the mat gets disinfected, swept. So it’s, uh, I don’t know who if there’s been any other cases that they’ve told me about at least have have ringworm in the gym.

1:14:14 – Edgar OtraVez
I don’t think there’s any. Yeah, I don’t. I mean, I’ve only been with you. Maybe over what, seven, seven months now? Is it? Is it six months? It’s been a minute. Yeah. So like, you know, there hasn’t been any issues that I’ve noticed, other than the one that you brought up. But like, Yeah, I’ve seen this. I I’ve, like, I guess when I was a blue belt, somebody got staph, you know, at the gym, and I was like, what’s that? Oh, it’s this and this and you know, and then there’s like, there’s MRSA or whatever. And like, what’s MRSA? Oh, yeah. You fucking lose a limb. Yeah. And I’m like, Oh, hell no.

1:14:49- Ramses Bugarin
No staph can kill you if you don’t. If you don’t treat it.

1:14:52 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. Well, I think one story that I heard was, I may have told you this before, but and I don’t know how true, again, just dismiss be like an urban legend. But apparently there was this wrestler who had contacted him. And he was like wrestling or whatever. And then the contact popped out. He put it back in and he, yeah, well, he lost his eye and then his half his face and then he was dead. Oh shit. Yeah, he died. He was dead with I think 2448 hours or something ridiculous. Yeah, cuz it just ate up his head.

1:15:20- Ramses Bugarin
I must have heard the same urban myth. Yeah. I just got to be possible. I think that’s in the realm of possibility. Yeah. I always tell people like if they weren’t context like don’t do not put that back in. Yeah, yeah. And they’ll just toss that sucker. Yeah, you know, exercise, you know, whatever you got to do. Yeah, you really actually clean it with whatever, whatever you’re supposed to clean those things with. But I tell people to not put the contact back in and I don’t know if it’s an urban myth or not that story, you know, better safe, you know? Yeah.

1:15:52 – Edgar OtraVez
And I think there isn’t anything in the, in the AI in the brain that can fight off a staff, you know, so.

1:16:00 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, no idea. Yeah, that’s, that’d be the last place. I’d want one of those infections for sure. Yeah.

1:16:06 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah. So I mean, I don’t like I said, I don’t I don’t do anything special. I just use Irish Spring. Yeah.

1:16:16 – Ramses Bugarin
I don’t do anything special either. I just use Dr. Bronner’s because I like got smells, but you know, and just shower shower, often shower after the training sessions. And, you know, you should moisturize I don’t I’ve also, I also heard somewhere again, could be bro science that people with a little more melanin, are not as prone to ringworm. Oh, really? Yeah. And I get anecdotally, like, I’ve seen that my white friends, they get the ringworm they get they get more skin infections,

1:16:43 – Edgar OtraVez
your white people are gross.

1:16:47 – Ramses Bugarin
So I don’t know if that’s like a, like a real thing or not, like, you know, I’ve, you know, played fast and loose here and there sometimes, like, actually, today, it’s pretty gross. I’m gonna admit this, but like, after, I don’t have a place to shower in between these training sessions, where I bring fresh clothes to change into but I’m going into tonight off of this Nunes training session. I just don’t have a solution for the time being, you know, hopefully in the future, we get a facility with some showers. That’d be dope. That won’t be a problem but and then for a lot of my training career, I’ve had to do that, you know, not by choice. There was a shower there I’d absolutely shower. But I’ve had to do that. And only up until recently I had the staph and I had ringworm one time and those have been the only two skin infections. Otherwise I’m you know, changing into fresh clothes and definitely shower at the end of the night because you don’t want to go to bed with

1:17:44 – Edgar OtraVez
all that grease. Getting in the bed. No, go to bed at that Matt funk. Oh, hell no. Yeah, I mean, every now and then I’ll see something like I’ll see a pimple I don’t like yeah, or something kind of angry. And I’m like, fuck, what is that and I get super paranoid. I’ll go ahead and do whatever I can to like get rid of it. So I’ll go jump on like some alcohol rubbing alcohol. Because I believe and I mentioned this in another podcast, but like the rubbing alcohol doesn’t kill all the all the good bacteria that you have on your skin. Rubbing alcohol doesn’t kill all of it. Okay, yeah. So like you don’t want it to kill everything. There’s some stuff that you can get that will just sterilize everything. Yeah, just nuclear everything there. And you don’t want that. So I’ll just use the rubbing alcohol and I’ll I’ll keep I’ll keep on it. You know if it if it looks crazy, or I don’t like it, I will just keep messing with it till like till it goes away. Luckily, I haven’t had any knock knock on particle board. But I wish I’m not that fancy. But nah dude, I just Yeah, I just I’m super scared of that shit. You know? Definitely the moment it pops up like clean that sucker off. Yeah.

1:19:04 – Ramses Bugarin
I mean, I don’t want to make it seem like it’s not we nobody wants to ringworm. But you know, like I said, won’t kill anybody. I don’t think staph is a problem. That’s a fucking problem.

1:19:13 – Edgar OtraVez
It’s a problem.

1:19:14- Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, you know, we’re in the first world. Thankfully, we can get medicine and stuff, but it’s a big pain in the ass man. It hurt a lot. Like I didn’t want to train like I technically could have. Yeah, like just keep it covered. And you know, take your meds and your antibiotic ointments and stuff like that. And as long as you’re covered it can you can train but I didn’t just because it was painful. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah, it was it was pretty sore to the touch. Really? I touch it and so it wasn’t the worst pain ever. It wasn’t like a tent or anything. It was pretty uncomfortable. Hmm. So you don’t want to you know, aggravate it

1:19:47 – Edgar OtraVez
and God forbid you know honestly, I think you did the right thing and you don’t want to go and then the band aid comes off …

1:19:52 – Ramses Bugarin
… and then you lose on somebody and get them sick. Oh also that yeah, get since we’re getting gross anyway. Like, if you’ve ever gone down these rabbit holes on either Snapchat or YouTube or you know where they’re doing these extractions? A lot of those speaking from experience though a lot of those are probably staph infections. news quite a bit. I’m sure some of them are cysts or whatever. Like I saw a few. Recently I got sucked in again on Snapchat out of these rabbit holes and they just can’t turn away. Yeah, I was just like,

1:20:23 – Edgar OtraVez
sit there. Watch this train this train wrecks.

1:20:27 – Ramses Bugarin
Some of those are probably staph infection. Oh, oohs and ooze. And that’s, that’s what mine was like, there was a certain point where just started using and I wasn’t supposed to, but you know, you’re, you’re popping them. Yeah, you would express it. Yeah, yeah, man. I don’t know how much of this podcast is usable.

1:20:42 – Edgar OtraVez
The whole thing is usable. Whether you like it or not.

1:20:46- Ramses Bugarin
Trans is gross.

1:20:48 – Edgar OtraVez
This is the gross podcast. But no, but like, I mean, I think these are the conversations that white belts don’t hear. Right? They don’t hear until as they get through, right, you know, student drop off. I don’t want stuff. I don’t want anybody peeing on me. You just don’t smash anybody. You won’t get peed on and make sure you shower. You won’t get stuff. There you go. It’s not hard. You know? Some somehow this these things still kind of surprise people but

1:21:18 – Ramses Bugarin
shower, wash your shit. be no problem.

1:21:21 – Edgar OtraVez
There you go. Seriously. So what about people coming to the gym sick? Oh, I’d

1:21:27 – Ramses Bugarin
prefer not Yeah. For whatever reason, I don’t think adults really have done this too much. But I’ll get kids. And they’ll be like, yeah, like, are you okay? Are you sick? Like? Yes. Like? Yeah. On a couple of occasions, especially like, well, it’s, it’s normally only me at the gym, so I don’t want to get sick. Yeah, it’s really tough to deal with.

1:21:55 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, who’s gonna replace you? Yeah, absolutely.

1:21:57 – Ramses Bugarin
I be you know, like, not easily, man, at least. And, you know, I feel like such an asshole if I have to close the gym because I have the sniffles, but like, I should, you know, it normally always has been. I don’t think there’s any been any adults that have come in. We’re okay. Actually. No, Isaac didn’t want to fucking Isaac. I yelled at him in persons. Yeah, I just call him out on this pocket. That’s normally just kids where their parents maybe you don’t maybe didn’t check in on them. Or maybe they don’t believe them. Yeah. But they’ve come in and they’ve been, you know, sniffly or have a little cough and we came in Are you okay? Do you need water? Are you sick? And sometimes it’s, uh, yeah, I’m sick. Or like, my sister was sick, or my sister is sick. Yeah. And like, and there’s been a less than five. But around there. I’ve had to walk the kid back to the parent with Hey, he’s sick. He’s sick. Like, I can have him here. Yeah, it’s a bad look, man. Like, I can’t get sick. And also, you want to? I don’t want to, you know, how do the parents take it? They’ve always taken it well, and I’ve always obviously, as respectful as I can be as gentle as I can be as diplomatic as I can be.

1:23:07 – Edgar OtraVez
I think you do a really good job with that kind of stuff, too. By the way,

1:23:09 – Ramses Bugarin
I do my best man. Like, I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings. And I try to be really diplomatic about how I bring stuff up. But yeah, it’s like, Dude, I can’t I can’t have a sick kid here. That’s just maybe you like, pre pandemic? I’d be like, Yeah, whatever. I’ve had a fever yesterday. I’ll go you know, get make fun of if I didn’t go train like, but you can give them a game. Right? It’s like, what do you know? Wow, really? Yeah. Like, okay, whatever. Like you’ll get smashed with a fever. Yeah. 250 pound human.

1:23:38 – Edgar OtraVez
I’m not a fan of it. Even before the pandemic, there was a guy that I knew he would he had like allergies. And he was always kept buggery.

1:23:45 – Ramses Bugarin
Yeah, it’s not. It’s not cool. Like, I would rather not either. Yeah, but you know, like, you give into peer pressure and stuff, and you go in and train. And there was one time I got pulled out of a I got pulled out of a tournament because somebody came sick. This was way but this was blue belt way before COVID. But he was, he was clearly fucking sick. My eyes are glassy, sneezing. And the next couple of days afterwards, was some Chicago open. And I had the worst fever of my fucking, like, 104 fever, and there’s dying, and then fucking IBJJF like, Wouldn’t refund me or credit me for the next tournament. So as soon as the fever broke, I went and competed NoGi the next day? Wow, I lost but like they weren’t giving me my money back and I didn’t get submitted. I have like, you know, gave the guy at least a round you know, but it wasn’t ideal. Oh, yeah. If you’re sick, please stay home. You know, and everybody actually have the adults aside from Isaac that one instance that I’ve all been like, oh, yeah, you haven’t seen me in a while because I was a little sick. And I was like, dude, thank you so much. You did the right thing. I appreciate it. It’s only been like the the odds kid kids class kid that has come in with the sniffles and then you know if it’s bad enough, I gotta send them home. If for no other reason, then it just blows It’s really bad if the instructor doesn’t care. Yeah. Probably the whole jujitsu community as a self selected population that’s a little bit more Cavalier with that stuff. People that are ultra, you know, COVID anxious or whatever. But, you know, I still don’t don’t come to the gym sick, you know? Yeah, everybody’s got different lives got kind of got to show up to work tomorrow, healthy, you know, for different professions has been, somebody might have an older relative that they’re gonna see soon. Just, you know, just stay home. It’s okay. If you have to stay home long enough. Talk to me, I can give you back that week on your membership. You know, that’s not you don’t have to have to lose out on anything, you know.

1:25:39 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, I think, especially pre pandemic. It was all about to show up. Yeah. You got to know you got to know every day. Whatever. Yeah, Baja. It was funny what you told me what that means.

1:25:51- Ramses Bugarin
I don’t understand why it’s like,

1:25:53 – Edgar OtraVez
… like, yeah, I was just like, oh, every day in the mood. I’m always in the mood, but every day. I don’t know. She’s gonna be in the mood every day

1:26:07 – Ramses Bugarin
Spirit is willing. spongy and bruised.

1:26:13 – Edgar OtraVez
Yeah, but like, I don’t know, man, like, pre pandemic. Everybody was just like, ya know, just come in. Oh, I got this giant gash. Just put some duct tape on it come in. I’m like, yeah, no, I was just like, No do that. You know, this? Should this hurts.

1:26:27 – Ramses Bugarin
Right? Yeah. Thankfully, we’re not, you know, going that hard all the time anymore. Learned a little better.

1:26:32 – Edgar OtraVez
Do you? Do you miss those days?

1:26:35- Ramses Bugarin
They’re good and bad. Like, if I trained how I’m training now, from the very start, I think I’d be a lot better. But also, like, I feel very confident that I can kind of handle what walks in through the door.

1:26:52 – Edgar OtraVez
I do want to I do want to say that. The guys were talking on the snip. Is it Snapchat? No. What’s called the WhatsApp, WhatsApp. Yeah, these these apps, these kids. With the guys were talking about, like how you took her that one guy came in?

1:27:08 – Ramses Bugarin
Who is I don’t feel good about how I reacted to that. You don’t think so? No. Well, so I guess if any, for for people that don’t know, the full context. There was like 17. Yeah, he was 17. He was underage. He came in without a legal guardian. And I asked him because he looked really young. Like, can I see your ID Haman, you’re not 18 Somebody’s got to come in and sign your waiver for you. Yeah, he brought, I think it was grandma came in and signed his waiver. And then I had a few other people trying the class. There wasn’t just him. Okay. And he had trained a little bit he told me he trained for a couple of years. And so I didn’t have eyes on him right away because I was worried about these two other gentlemen two or three maybe other students that are we’re trying to class and we’re completely brand new to jujitsu. And for better or worse, I was paying a lot more attention to them. And I paired them up with a pair this kid up with with Scott, one of one of our blue belts was a scatter, Tom, I thought it was it was Scott for the technique portion of class. And every now and then I would look over and the technique that was being wrapped. I saw that the kid put it on with a little little too much sauce. Yeah, yeah. And so before the positional sparring started, I put him with Tom. Yeah, because Scott’s great. But, you know, Tom’s a little bit bigger, a little more physical. And Tom’s down for a hard scrap, which, uh, not that Scott isn’t Scott, especially since when I first met Scott to now he’s a completely different animal, though. Even in the last six months. Yeah, he’s definitely you know, I owe him some stripes for sure. He’s come a long way. But you know, I know that Tom. He like he likes a good scrap here and there. So not this guy doesn’t but anyway, keep repeating myself. So I switched him just because I know, like, less will go wrong. Yeah, potentially, if I pair this kid up with potentially potentially. And while I was paying attention to I think I was also in the positional sparring because it was odd numbers. Yeah. And I look over and Tom was, was chastising the kid for some reason they tell him to settle down or I think I had just watched him slam Tom, I can’t I can’t remember what happened. But there’s clearly a little hurt.

1:29:20 – Edgar OtraVez
Well that kid that kid was going nuts, man.

1:29:23 – Ramses Bugarin
He was going a little nuts. But like, I don’t like how I respond to it. Because, you know, to lay out the full context. As soon as I saw he had hurt Tom. I jumped in roll with the kid and I let the kid up. And that’s not …

1:29:39 – Edgar OtraVez
I don’t know, you see, from where I was sitting, first of all, like, I know this may sound like, like you were punishing the kid. But the way I saw it was you’re keeping people safe. But you were also showing him that you know he’s coming. He’s coming into the gym. And he’s because that kid, he didn’t come to train, he came something, he came to prove something, whether to himself or to us or whoever. But he came in with a ton of ego, right? And granted Jesse 17. I didn’t know that, but he looked young. I felt that the way you handled it, I don’t know if there’s anything wrong with it. To tell you honestly, I’ve had, I’ve had similar experiences myself, where I was that kid, where, where I came in, I came into the gym with like, something to prove to myself or something, or some kind of ego. And they put me in my place, right? Now, many years later. I look back on those days. And I, I am grateful for that. Humbling, because you didn’t hurt him. You didn’t hurt him at all. Like you just sat on him dominated and maybe suffocate them a little bit and show them that you’re a jiu jitsu black belt, right? I don’t, I don’t think there was anything wrong with it. The way you handle it, but like, I’ve, I’ve been in the ring word, where I came in like that. And I got my ass kicked leg bad, right. And the way I think about it, too, is is like, if I came around acting like that, and maybe at a bar, or at another gym, or something like or someplace where these people are not my friends, where these people are not looking after me, where they’re not going to be nice to me. Like, or would I be, you know, especially if I did that kind of shit at a bar shall throw my way around acting, you know, all egotistical. I mean, the unfortunate part is, we haven’t seen that kid come back.